Jestersix

Talk about responsible fish harvesting

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Twisted said:
It’s funny how you’re being so critical to the members of the club for not doing “our research” when you’re literally abusing fish adding that many in your tiny tank. Funny isn’t it ?
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No abuse to the fish. They are quite happy and very well fed. My tank parameters are monitored very tightly. I also plan upgrades accordingly.
 
Bruce Spiegelman said:
Okay? Not sure what your point is. I was genuinely appreciative of you updating and correcting me. I hoped you had recent data to show the club is all. It would be awesome news if it's true and my data is old and defunct.
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I just happened to have a friend from Tonga who works in the aquarium industry. We discussed this issue recently. I have no data points for elsewhere except Australia. I also have no desire to search for it.

I applaud you if you want to take this on.
 
Randyadammartin said:
I just happened to have a friend from Tonga who works in the aquarium industry. We discussed this issue recently. I have no data points for elsewhere except Australia. I also have no desire to search for it.

I applaud you if you want to take this on.
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Well that's a start. What percentage of the world exports of ornamental reef fish come from Australia? Your data will save me some research. Thanks.
 
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Oh my. That many....

Hmmm... maybe the info I provided wasn't so out of date then? Tonga and Australia do have strict collection procedures, but both account for just a percentage or so of exports . . Unfortunately well over a third of all ornamental reef fish come from Singapore, Indonesia, and the Philippines. Those and a number of other countries pay lip service to "outlawing" cyanide collection, but the practice is widespread.

So -- umm.. damn I'm confused. How was I disseminating data of yesteryear?
 
Bruce Spiegelman said:
The truth is that most of us don't like to think of the big picture. If you spend anytime at an LFS unpacking new fish shipments you quickly realize that a 20% death rate in shipping is common on average. Add to that another 10% or so inn the first 24 hours and a third of all fish die before someone even gets a chance to take them home and put them in their tank.

But wait! It gets worse. The shipments that go to your LFS first went through a distributor where they arrived from a very long trip from where they were collected. The death rate in these is at least as high since many of the fish are stressed for longer periods, were subject to bad collecting procedures, etc -- and this is thousands of fish a week going to distributors.

But wait! It gets worse. First they had to be collected and sent to holding locations from the original wholesalers. Often these are facilities with sub-optimal holding pools with thousands and thousands of fish. Many have diseases which spread, infect and kill before they leave the facility.

So the question is what percentage of fish die in transit before we put them in our tanks? There was a study on this a number of years ago, and it's more than a little horrifying. I'm sure someone here has the link.

It's one of the reasons that sustainability is the cornerstone of this club, and the reason many are passionate about not contributing any further to the death rate by ignoring best practices.
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Rich (Thales) did a great talk many years ago in regards to chain of contact (?) in regards to this a long time ago iirc. It discussed the mortality rates as it applied to how many hands that the livestock went through. It was very enlightening at the time to the point that's still memorable to this day.
 
Ibn said:
Rich (Thales) did a great talk many years ago in regards to chain of contact (?) in regards to this a long time ago iirc. It discussed the mortality rates as it applied to how many hands that the livestock went through. It was very enlightening at the time to the point that's still memorable to this day.
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Rich's talk and some subsequent info that he pointed us toward was the original source of my yesteryear data. A fairly quick search shows this hasn't changed overall worldwide. There have been improvements in a few areas, but overall collection of ornamental reef fish and transport kills millions of fish each year. That includes collection using cyanide. National laws and international practices do outlaw it, but I can't find any indication that's put a dent into the practice.
In any case, that's far off-field from the original discussion about what our personal responsibilities are to these animals that are in our care.
 
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I'm going to lock this thread because I feel that this isn't going anywhere productive. If I'm wrong with this assessment and the original thread starter would like it opened again he can send me a message.
 
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