Kessil

Trident!!!

Flagg37

Supporting Member
Eric (alkatronic employee) response to that video.


watched the video quickly and got some basic points as to the info presented:

1. Noise level comparison was at different location. Trident seems to be not as close to the tank. but honestly, it is quite similar.
2. Alkatronic doesn’t need strict 4 weeks calibration but is just an advise to users. On the other hand, no info about calibration or servicing needed for the Trident.
3. The cost of reagent is wrong. Should be $0.04 per Alkatronic test based on 29.99 for 1L. 29.99/5000=0.006, 0.006*7ml per test = $0.04. he said Alkatroince needs $0.17/test.
4. Never showed Trident readings with the back to back tests and he showed only a daily test record with 12 hours apart (Alkatronic) not what he said back to back tests. If we can see back to back results, I am very confident that Alkatronic will out perform Trident.


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1. How does he know that the noise test was taken in different locations. In the video it sure looked like the same spot.

2. Didn’t we already discuss that the trident does have documentation about how often it’s supposed to have maintenance performed?

3. He’s right that in the video it was incorrect how much the cost of each test was but it was corrected in the comments. Really not the ideal situation though.

4. I’m not sure I understand what was wrong with how he tested them. Didn’t he just show the delta from the two units compared to his manual testing? Didn’t the results show that both units tested within the manufacture’s ranges?
 

jorahx4

Guest
1. How does he know that the noise test was taken in different locations. In the video it sure looked like the same spot.

2. Didn’t we already discuss that the trident does have documentation about how often it’s supposed to have maintenance performed?

3. He’s right that in the video it was incorrect how much the cost of each test was but it was corrected in the comments. Really not the ideal situation though.

4. I’m not sure I understand what was wrong with how he tested them. Didn’t he just show the delta from the two units compared to his manual testing? Didn’t the results show that both units tested within the manufacture’s ranges?

Haha, I don’t know the answers! Just giving the smarter peoples response to the video. So we can learn more about both machines.


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Scott Sweet

Supporting Member
Interesting thread. Glad it was finally released. I personally decided to go down the path of a KH Director and the Reefbot. The KH Director works with GHL dosers and can directly influence the dosing if desired. I have the Core7 4 part on the other 4 head GHL doser and plan on programming the dosing based on the measured dKH once I have the confidence things are working properly with animals growing. I wanted that redundancy on my new tank...I didn't want just Apex. Second, the Reefbot allows me to do many other tests other than the 3.

The way the ReefBot works is a bit different than the Trident. The levels are clearly "seen" by the robot and the pumps are quite powerful from my experience so far. It isn't based on "how long should a pump run" to fill the test vial, but rather when it is full, shut off the pump. I am unsure how the Trident does this function...but clearly the strict instructions/guidelines about the length of the feed tube influences this function. There are a multitude of test kits that work with the Reefbot too. There are 8 vials in the robot and you can swap them out if needed to run more tests than what is in the robot. The only downside to the Reefbot so far is how long it takes for a test to complete. Some tests can take 45-60 minutes to complete. It is virtually silent and the software is pretty slick. Finally, you don't "have to run a test" to keep things calibrated. The Trident requires a minimum number of tests per day to keep it calibrated. The KH Director does as well, but only minimally to keep the PH probe wet. Calibration of the KH Director PH probe will be required, but that is a pretty minimal cost.

The initial cost is something to consider. The ReefBot is a bit more expensive and physically larger. However, you don't have to buy a single vendor's reagents. I guess it is hard to know what the total cost of ownership will be per month or year. With the ReefBot, it is purely based on how often you want to run the tests and therefore have to buy a refill test kit. With Trident, there will be a direct ongoing minimal cost for the reagents. Since so many of us are OCD on our parameters, that could become costly on the Trident since you always have to run all 3 at any one test. The more OCD = the more $$ and when you aren't "physically" doing it, it is easy to forget the $$ you might start spending at the press of a button..LOL.

Right now I am testing Nitrite/Nitrate, Phosphate and calcium since the tank is cycling. I am doing them once or 2x per week. I will add Mg and take out something later when the time is right. The refill for the kits are $20-$30 for 50 to 100 tests depending on the kit. Having the choice to pick and choose is nice.

It will be interesting to hear what people think as the Trident gets out there.
 

ddrueckh

Supporting Member
Interesting thread. Glad it was finally released. I personally decided to go down the path of a KH Director and the Reefbot. The KH Director works with GHL dosers and can directly influence the dosing if desired. I have the Core7 4 part on the other 4 head GHL doser and plan on programming the dosing based on the measured dKH once I have the confidence things are working properly with animals growing. I wanted that redundancy on my new tank...I didn't want just Apex. Second, the Reefbot allows me to do many other tests other than the 3.

The way the ReefBot works is a bit different than the Trident. The levels are clearly "seen" by the robot and the pumps are quite powerful from my experience so far. It isn't based on "how long should a pump run" to fill the test vial, but rather when it is full, shut off the pump. I am unsure how the Trident does this function...but clearly the strict instructions/guidelines about the length of the feed tube influences this function. There are a multitude of test kits that work with the Reefbot too. There are 8 vials in the robot and you can swap them out if needed to run more tests than what is in the robot. The only downside to the Reefbot so far is how long it takes for a test to complete. Some tests can take 45-60 minutes to complete. It is virtually silent and the software is pretty slick. Finally, you don't "have to run a test" to keep things calibrated. The Trident requires a minimum number of tests per day to keep it calibrated. The KH Director does as well, but only minimally to keep the PH probe wet. Calibration of the KH Director PH probe will be required, but that is a pretty minimal cost.

The initial cost is something to consider. The ReefBot is a bit more expensive and physically larger. However, you don't have to buy a single vendor's reagents. I guess it is hard to know what the total cost of ownership will be per month or year. With the ReefBot, it is purely based on how often you want to run the tests and therefore have to buy a refill test kit. With Trident, there will be a direct ongoing minimal cost for the reagents. Since so many of us are OCD on our parameters, that could become costly on the Trident since you always have to run all 3 at any one test. The more OCD = the more $$ and when you aren't "physically" doing it, it is easy to forget the $$ you might start spending at the press of a button..LOL.

Right now I am testing Nitrite/Nitrate, Phosphate and calcium since the tank is cycling. I am doing them once or 2x per week. I will add Mg and take out something later when the time is right. The refill for the kits are $20-$30 for 50 to 100 tests depending on the kit. Having the choice to pick and choose is nice.

It will be interesting to hear what people think as the Trident gets out there.
I am interested in getting the ReefBot (have had a hard time deciding between that and a Trident). I like the ReefBot because I can also test NO3 and PO4. I was surprised to read how quiet the ReefBot is from you. Is there anything you don't like about it or any cautions? It looks like a nice product. I don't mind having to manually adjust my dosing based on results. I just want to be able to see my parameters while on vacation and be able to adjust as needed.
 

Scott Sweet

Supporting Member
I am interested in getting the ReefBot (have had a hard time deciding between that and a Trident). I like the ReefBot because I can also test NO3 and PO4. I was surprised to read how quiet the ReefBot is from you. Is there anything you don't like about it or any cautions? It looks like a nice product. I don't mind having to manually adjust my dosing based on results. I just want to be able to see my parameters while on vacation and be able to adjust as needed.
So far, the ReefBot has been excellent...very convenient to be able to start a test whenever I want. It is really quiet. I do have it inside a cabinet so most of the noise is blocked/muffled. The only time you might hear something is when it is doing a test requiring titration (like calcium) because the motor is running every few seconds while it is titrating. However when I ran it with the cabinet door open, I barely knew it was on.

I wanted to see my parameters while on vacation this past weekend and I literally initiated the tests while fishing on the lake :). In a while, I got an email and a app notification of the test results.

As I mentioned above, some of the test results take a while to complete - as long as 1 hour. On the calcium, I started with the Red Sea kit. The challenge I learned is that the titration agent shelf life is only 1 week in the ReefBot. (You have to mix two agents together for the ReefBot and the mix shelf life is very short.) Since I am only cycling the tank, I don't need to check calcium very often right now so basically I wasted 90% of the titration agent I put in the vial. I will be switching to the API kit for calcium to see how it does.

From a support perspective, Reef Kinetics is all over it...even if they are on the other side of the world. One thing that is interesting is when I questioned my results, the RK chemist was able to look at my results and identify the issue right away...because the results are on the cloud. Part of the results they provide is an email with the actual test color and the color chart it is compared to. One thing that I didn't realize, and was identified by RK, was the color chart had drifted from the norm because of the old titration fluid I mentioned above. The "maintenance" things are tracked with the app (e.g. how many times the needle has been used, how much reagant/RO/DI water is used). Having that level of visibility and support is great. My understanding is that there will be more local support in the USA soon. There is a very active FB forum for the ReefBot too. The app is really easy to use.

The ReefBot is physically larger than the Trident so it will take up more room. Though the Trident seems to have some real specific input restrictions...you have to use the 5' (I think that is the length) black hose they provide...as is. You cannot cut nor extend it. Hopefully that will work for everyone's cabinetry, etc. For ReefBot, you have a lot more flexibility in the distance of things to/from the ReefBot.

Hope that helps...
 

treylane

Supporting Member
I picked up a trident on release day 2 weeks ago, and it's already changed how I deal with the tank.

I use 2 part and BRS generic dosing pumps to keep alk/ca/mg levels sane. My tank and ca/alk/mg levels have been decent since Dec, when I completed a significant overhaul of my tank. I was generally testing 2x/week, and needed to adjust dosing levels from time to time as I've added SPS.

I've always been a little dismissive of keeping CA levels up much above 350. The corals in my tank never seemed to care one way or another if levels are 350 or 400 or 425, so I didn't worry about it.

So I set up the trident, and it was reading CA levels lower than my test kits (probably test kit user-error on my part) and I also had to see the slightly shameful CA number staring me in the face on my apex dashboard every day.

Ok fine, I bumped CA dosage.

And then alk started dropping! I'm pretty sure bumping CA increased alk consumption. I had to bump alk dosage as well to keep up.

I've been running with increased dosing levels, and corals seem to be growing faster already.

Manually adjusting the dosing levels is pretty simple, but the swings are a little larger than I'd like - I'm actually planning on picking up a DOS at this point for the increased stability and convenience.


Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 10.36.31 AM.png
 

sfsuphysics

BOD
Staff member
Glad that's working out for you Jess. Looks like you need to up your magnesium too... well assuming the scale of that graph isn't completely squished
 

treylane

Supporting Member
Actually I've turned off the mg doser, trying to let levels drop down to 1350-ish... but yeah, the scale of all those graphs is super squished, for mg the top is 1410 and bottom is 1390.
The trident widget on the dashboard displays simplified graphs, but there are nicer ones available in the chart UI:

Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 12.30.33 PM.png
 

jorahx4

Guest
Actually I've turned off the mg doser, trying to let levels drop down to 1350-ish... but yeah, the scale of all those graphs is super squished, for mg the top is 1410 and bottom is 1390.
The trident widget on the dashboard displays simplified graphs, but there are nicer ones available in the chart UI:

View attachment 11979
How much of a daily alk swing are you trying to narrow it down to?


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Chromis

Supporting Member
I am still waiting for the Trident to become available, one online vendor posted June might be a safe bet for the next restocking. Does anyone know? I’m going through the start up testing with my garage tanks and it’s a total pain, they need frequent testing because they are so new. Reefbot looks interesting.
 

Scott Sweet

Supporting Member
How many Reefbot units have been sold?
My s/n is 240 or so. I think a few hundred, but I don't know. I know that i tried to get the first 100 unit discount after about 40 days and I missed that oppty. There is a private FB page for Reef Kinetics so you can look there and ask.
 
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