Water changes

[rygh]

Honestly, AWC scares me a bit. ....

It should.
The line out clogged with salt one time, so it was pulling salt water in, but not pulling it out.
Apex salinity monitor warned me, so no issues, but could have been bad.

 

[Meshmez]

It should.
The line out clogged with salt one time, so it was pulling salt water in, but not pulling it out.
Apex salinity monitor warned me, so no issues, but could have been bad.

I also don't trust my salinity probe... Swings with temp... But that's a different subject

 

[Flagg37]

Hmm, I like this idea. Currently I’ve installed a drain, but I was originally planning on connecting it to my manifold with a ball valve. An overflow system seems even easier.

So I’m imagining a bulkhead in the sump, maybe on the back of the return section, above the ATO sensor obviously. I could plug the bulkhead up if I was worried, and remove it for water changes. A gate valve on the back seems hard to access and a plug would seem to serve the same purpose.

Then add water to the DT and let the old water naturally overflow out the drain. Afterwards there might be a few gallons of extra salt water that would raise salinity an imperceptible amount, maybe to balance out skimmate? Only problem is your high ATO alarm might be going off. Maybe you’ll need to take out even more water afterwards? That’s kinda annoying, defeats some of the simplicity of having an overflow. If I use it off the manifold I can dial it in exactly.

Is that what you we’re thinking? Any other ideas to make this the easiest/best way to water change?

Edit: maybe you can slow down your return pumps during the water change to raise the sump water level. Then when done with water change, ramp returns back up and water level in the return compartment comes down to normal levels.



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I’ve been trying to come up with a way to make the water level of the overflow adjustable since a bulkhead in the side of the sump is pretty permanent and if I were to get it wrong I’ve only got one shot.

 

[Meshmez]

I’ve been trying to come up with a way to make the water level of the overflow adjustable since a bulkhead in the side of the sump is pretty permanent and if I were to get it wrong I’ve only got one shot.

If you got it too low you could always add a turned up elbow and a pipe cut to whatever height you want. Maybe you do it low on purpose for this reason? If you get it too high you have fewer options.

 

[Gablami]

Thinking about it more, I think I’m going to do it.

Drill a bulkhead low-ish, probably in the skimmer compartment, maybe just above water level. Install a gate valve inside the bulkhead where I can easily access it. I can put an elbow on the end if I want draining water level to be higher.

1. Turn off return pump, turn off ATO. Sump water level rises to level of bulkhead/elbow.

2. Open gate valve.

3. Start adding newly mixed saltwater to DT and water passively drains into overflow.

4. Stop water change pump and close gate valve

5. Turn return pump and ATO back on.

The idea of drilling the sump makes people uncomfortable. But it’s no different than any bulkhead drilled for an external overflow or return. In fact, it’s safer than that, since this will be above working water level.

I’ll post FU after I do it.


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[Meshmez]

Thinking about it more, I think I’m going to do it.

Drill a bulkhead low-ish, probably in the skimmer compartment, maybe just above water level. Install a gate valve inside the bulkhead where I can easily access it. I can put an elbow on the end if I want draining water level to be higher.

1. Turn off return pump, turn off ATO. Sump water level rises to level of bulkhead/elbow.

2. Open gate valve.

3. Start adding newly mixed saltwater to DT and water passively drains into overflow.

4. Stop water change pump and close gate valve

5. Turn return pump and ATO back on.

The idea of drilling the sump makes people uncomfortable. But it’s no different than any bulkhead drilled for an external overflow or return. In fact, it’s safer than that, since this will be above working water level.

I’ll post FU after I do it.


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I guess my question is what are you actually saving yourself here? Starting a siphon? If you are still shutting everything off, just do it the old fashioned way. I think the thought with the sump pipe was to just pump new water in, and have the excess overflow to the drain, with everything still running.

 

[Coral reefer]

Why gate instead of regular ball valve?

 

[gaberosenfield]

My 10 gallon AIO tank at work just has a 1/2" drain drilled about 1/2" from the top in the back compartment. This is ~1/2" above the normal water line in this compartment and about equal to the water line in this compartment if I turn off the return pump. Tubing connects this drain to a 5 gal bucket in a cabinet below. My water change routine consists of adding deionized water to the tank until the level in the drain compartment reaches the drain (no more than ~250 mL) and then pouring in new saltwater as fast as the drain can handle it. Afterwards I dump the contents of the 5 gal drain bucket down the sink. No need for siphons, no worries about how much water I'm removing, no AWC disasters, no need to turn off ATO or any pumps. If you have a drain nearby and below your tank level you can just run the drain line directly from the tank to the drain, making everything even easier! An identical design could easily be applied in your sump if you have one.

 

[Chromis]

What about this, split the taller standpipe drain in the main overflow box so it can be diverted to a drain?

Problem with the sump drain is if you forget to turn your return pump off, then add water up to the level of the sump drain, then turn the return pump off, the sump can overflow if the sump drain isn’t faster than the display drain. The display drain has the benefit of siphon and height over the sump drain, and I imagine the sump drain would need a screen which might slow the flow, but maybe with a big enough sump drain it could work?

 

[Coral reefer]

I feel like we are building s better mouse trap with this thread.

 

[Meshmez]

I feel like we are building s better mouse trap with this thread.

I think it's just a different mousetrap...

 

[Gablami]

Why gate instead of regular ball valve?

Sorry, ball valve.

Just to answer some thoughts, the larger the water change the more it needs to be easy. For some, starting a siphon may not be a big deal. I think it would be nice to not have to do that and deal with additional tubing and cleanup.

I did consider the idea of draining off the overflow. I am planning a 1” bulkhead to drain the sump. The pump from the water change has to pump up to the DT, so should not overwhelm the sump drain.


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[svreef]

Are there small reversible pumps?

I like this process:

Turn off return pump, let sump fill
Use small reversible pump to drain sump to normal level into drain
Switch hose to brute
Reverse pump to fill sump back up
Turn on return pump

The reversible pump can stay in the sump

 

[Flagg37]

Thinking about it more, I think I’m going to do it.

Drill a bulkhead low-ish, probably in the skimmer compartment, maybe just above water level. Install a gate valve inside the bulkhead where I can easily access it. I can put an elbow on the end if I want draining water level to be higher.

1. Turn off return pump, turn off ATO. Sump water level rises to level of bulkhead/elbow.

2. Open gate valve.

3. Start adding newly mixed saltwater to DT and water passively drains into overflow.

4. Stop water change pump and close gate valve

5. Turn return pump and ATO back on.

The idea of drilling the sump makes people uncomfortable. But it’s no different than any bulkhead drilled for an external overflow or return. In fact, it’s safer than that, since this will be above working water level.

I’ll post FU after I do it.


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Where are you adding the water? If the return pump is off and you add it to the sump then you’re only diluting the volume of the sump. It would be better to add it to the dt. Maybe that was your plan though. Are you planning on just adding it with buckets?

My original plan was to have everything automated so that I could schedule it or just press a button and have it run it. I don’t know of a safe way to open and close the drain valve automatically and I don’t feel comfortable not having the valve. Although, if there’s no valve, the biggest risk is if there is a power outage, all the excess water that flows to the sump will go down the drain. That’s not a huge deal but when the power comes back on, if everything turns back on the ATO will fill up with fresh water. If anyone has suggestions for automating this I’d be open to ideas. I was planning on having a 3/8” water line going from a pump in the saltwater reservoir to the DT. It wouldn’t be a fast water change and so I was planning that everything would be running while it did it.

 

[Vincerama2]

I have two 44 gallon brutes. One is filled with new salt water and the other accepts the dirty water to the same level, more or less. For smaller tank, same, but with two 6 gallon ex-salt buckets.

 

[Vincerama2]

Instead of a drain/overflow from your sump, why not add a Tee and two valves to your display tank drain line(s)? When you want to do a water change, shut off your return pump, then close the line to the sump, and open the line to the waste-drain line. Then just pour water into your main tank, as the overflows drain water, they go to your waste-drain line and when you're done, shut off the waste-drain line and reopen your sump-drain line and turn on the return pump.

The down side is that some of the new water will of course wash out with the waste water.

 

[Gablami]

Instead of a drain/overflow from your sump, why not add a Tee and two valves to your display tank drain line(s)? When you want to do a water change, shut off your return pump, then close the line to the sump, and open the line to the waste-drain line. Then just pour water into your main tank, as the overflows drain water, they go to your waste-drain line and when you're done, shut off the waste-drain line and reopen your sump-drain line and turn on the return pump.

The down side is that some of the new water will of course wash out with the waste water.

I like this idea. It’s similar to what I’m proposing, just not in the sump. It requires two ball valves to open and close, as opposed to one in the sump. The sump requires a bulkhead. Overall I think the simplicity of design and effort required are similar. Is one safer than the other? Perhaps marginally plumbing off the overflow line is safer because no bulkhead to leak.

Thank you! I’ll update once I do it.


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[Meshmez]

Are there small reversible pumps?

I like this process:

Turn off return pump, let sump fill
Use small reversible pump to drain sump to normal level into drain
Switch hose to brute
Reverse pump to fill sump back up
Turn on return pump

The reversible pump can stay in the sump

How are you going to stop the siphon from the reversible pump? Also I'm not sure there are really reversible pumps.. Though in theory a peristaltic pump should be able to go 2 directions?

 

[RandyC]

How are you going to stop the siphon from the reversible pump? Also I'm not sure there are really reversible pumps.. Though in theory a peristaltic pump should be able to go 2 directions?

not a theory. Masterflex and Versa pumps can go in both directions.

 

[Flagg37]

not a theory. Masterflex and Versa pumps can go in both directions.

So does the DOS. I had previously done an auto water change system run off of one head. When it ran in one direction it pulled water out and then when it ran in the other direction it added water back in.