Jestersix

Apex Trident Pros and Cons

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Hmm.... get a KH Guardian plus my current reefbot.
Alk is good to test fairly often. Use the reefbot for everything else except Alk, run weekly.
More toys = good.
(And I was looking at CoralVue's new rollermat thing at CFM)
Btw if you want to borrow the khg after rostato feel free. I honestly do not ise this unit cause it's my 3rd unit I got it when I was planning on doing an in wall system but life got busy so I had to put the project on hold for a year..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
Btw if you want to borrow the khg after rostato feel free. I honestly do not ise this unit cause it's my 3rd unit I got it when I was planning on doing an in wall system but life got busy to I put the project on hold for a year..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Cool, I might like to do that!
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
I used to think that Ca and Mg could be tested rarely and not really worried about if you dose proportional amounts, like a few people have said here. With that mentality firmly in place, my Ca and Mg values slowly increased over the past 1-2 years, were getting to problematic levels, and now have taken a long time to (nearly) correct over the past couple months! The correction has been a pain, with lots of testing, supplementary Alk added every day manually, etc. I use Triton, which specifically says to dose proportional amounts based only on Alk levels. I can tell you with certainty that that is an approximation, not an absolute truth.

Now I’m not saying that I need to test Ca and Mg every day like the Triton is designed to do. That part annoys me too. But to say you’ll test for them every few months or longer, or just not test for them because you believe in the proportionality as an absolute, is taking a real risk if you have a lot of stony coral.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I used to think that Ca and Mg could be tested rarely and not really worried about if you dose proportional amounts, like a few people have said here. With that mentality firmly in place, my Ca and Mg values slowly increased over the past 1-2 years, were getting to problematic levels, and now have taken a long time to (nearly) correct over the past couple months! The correction has been a pain, with lots of testing, supplementary Alk added every day manually, etc. I use Triton, which specifically says to dose proportional amounts based only on Alk levels. I can tell you with certainty that that is an approximation, not an absolute truth.

Now I’m not saying that I need to test Ca and Mg every day like the Triton is designed to do. That part annoys me too. But to say you’ll test for them every few months or longer, or just not test for them because you believe in the proportionality as an absolute, is taking a real risk if you have a lot of stony coral.
Hmmm.. I personally believe if what you described occurred is either due to additive consetration or dosing issue.
Also coral are not sensitive to ca as much as alk..by large margin I might add..

I host some of the most sensitive coral and as I said, for years, I do not test ca or correct for ca. I only test kh and dose both ca and kh. As long as my alk stable all good. I will lose some of these millis if my alk swing by 1dkh. While ca swing between 400 and 500 will not impact coral one bit...

I can prove that with an expermeint if you like, if you see my jurnal I post my teiton ince a month. And u will see some times my ca is 430 and some times 500..i.nwver care, never corrected it because coral...yet coral thrive...

Especially when running carx how can you dose ca and alk sepratly?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

MolaMola

Supporting Member
I use like 1/3 as much ca as soda ash
Oh, no. Last two posts are blowing my mind. When I got dosers set up, I sadly went to “set it and forget it,” thinking it would be okay without worry or attention. Okay, maybe I did know better than to do that and just jumped off the lazy cliff. Oy.
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
When I say proportionality, I’m referring to replenishing Alk, Ca, Mg (and trace elements) in the proportion that stony corals use them on average when growing. Triton and other systems all dose with this average proportionality. For ratios of DIY Alk/Ca/Mg, that info is also available, for example from BRS and an article by Randy Holmes-Farley.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Oh, no. Last two posts are blowing my mind. When I got dosers set up, I sadly went to “set it and forget it,” thinking it would be okay without worry or attention. Okay, maybe I did know better than to do that and just jumped off the lazy cliff. Oy.
Well everything in moderation ofcourse. Am not saying never test.
Am describing 2 themes
1- if ratios are in check, dosing equal parts in check, doser dose balue is known. Then less testing of ca is ok and better yet not chace ca value is better
2- if coral are healthy, alk testing is important and in my experince coral are way more sensitive to alk than ca.

Some times the problem with these peristaltic dosers is they change their flow rate by time and if you do not change the tubing every 6 months I guarantee u they will have diffrent flow rate..100% guarantee you. So setting a doser and forgetting it without changing tubing can be path for imbalance simply due to the doser, not that coral changed its calcification and start consuming alk differently than ca...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

JVU

BOD
Staff member
Hmmm.. I personally believe if what you described occurred is either due to additive consetration or dosing issue.
Also coral are not sensitive to ca as much as alk..by large margin I might add..

I host some of the most sensitive coral and as I said, for years, I do not test ca or correct for ca. I only test kh and dose both ca and kh. As long as my alk stable all good. I will lose some of these millis if my alk swing by 1dkh. While ca swing between 400 and 500 will not impact coral one bit...

I can prove that with an expermeint if you like, if you see my jurnal I post my teiton ince a month. And u will see some times my ca is 430 and some times 500..i.nwver care, never corrected it because coral...yet coral thrive...

Especially when running carx how can you dose ca and alk sepratly?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I use the 3-part Triton additives, not a CaRx. But the idea would be the same. If you needed to correct the imbalance, you would set your autodosing or CaRx slightly lower than needed and manually dose the one that was lower, until they are in balance again. Then increase the autodosing or CaRx up the needed level to maintain. With individual dosers you can increase or decrease each one as needed to get to a balance, but this is the less preferred way to do it since there are also trace elements in there (except for the Ca supplement in Triton, that is a pure reagent supposedly).

I agree corals are WAY more sensitive to Alk levels than Ca or Mg, and also that Alk is much more likely to fluctuate enough to be a problem quicker.

You may be right about my dosers being poorly calibrated. They used to be calibrated precisely, but I haven’t recalibrated in a while.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
When I say proportionality, I’m referring to replenishing Alk, Ca, Mg (and trace elements) in the proportion that stony corals use them on average when growing. Triton and other systems all dose with this average proportionality. For ratios of DIY Alk/Ca/Mg, that info is also available, for example from BRS and an article by Randy Holmes-Farley.
Yup agree.
Again just so am not misunderstood. All am saying is, testing ca daily is a waste.
- Testing alk daily is worth it.
- Dosing ca based on alk daily consumption with once a month or 2 check ca is more than sufficient.
- Coral less sensitive to ca
- peristaltic dosers need to be maintained really well, otherwise flow rate change and they start dosing difftent quantities than what's expected...


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I use the 3-part Triton additives, not a CaRx. But the idea would be the same. If you needed to correct the imbalance, you would set your autodosing or CaRx slightly lower than needed and manually dose the one that was lower, until they are in balance again. Then increase the autodosing or CaRx up the needed level to maintain. With individual dosers you can increase or decrease each one as needed to get to a balance, but this is the less preferred way to do it since there are also trace elements in there (except for the Ca supplement in Triton, that is a pure reagent supposedly).

I agree corals are WAY more sensitive to Alk levels than Ca or Mg, and also that Alk is much more likely to fluctuate enough to be a problem quicker.

You may be right about my dosers being poorly calibrated. They used to be calibrated precisely, but I haven’t recalibrated in a while.
Agreed john.
Careful of peristaltic dosers. They should change tubing every 6 months if you want to guarantee the same flow rate.
At 6 or 7 months mark the tubings deform...
That's why triton need maintenance every year, the maintenance is changing all these peristaltic heada I am pretty sure.

One of the reason I like khg is that it use a float to calculate the water volume so it take the peristaltic flowrate out of the equation.
While, I think, triton depend on the calibrated value of the peristaltic pump flow rate. That's why when they wear out you will need to change them

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JVU

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Btw, One more variable here is the substrate. Some substrate leach ca. Some rocks have content of limestone and also leach ca by time.
If system has any of these you can also see diffrent values....

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JVU

sfsuphysics

BOD
Staff member
I used to think that Ca and Mg could be tested rarely and not really worried about if you dose proportional amounts, like a few people have said here. With that mentality firmly in place, my Ca and Mg values slowly increased over the past 1-2 years, were getting to problematic levels,
Well I would like to point out that while I infrequently check Ca and Mg, "rarely" is a time period that is smaller than 1-2 years :)
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I use the 3-part Triton additives, not a CaRx. But the idea would be the same. If you needed to correct the imbalance, you would set your autodosing or CaRx slightly lower than needed and manually dose the one that was lower, until they are in balance again. Then increase the autodosing or CaRx up the needed level to maintain. With individual dosers you can increase or decrease each one as needed to get to a balance, but this is the less preferred way to do it since there are also trace elements in there (except for the Ca supplement in Triton, that is a pure reagent supposedly).

I agree corals are WAY more sensitive to Alk levels than Ca or Mg, and also that Alk is much more likely to fluctuate enough to be a problem quicker.

You may be right about my dosers being poorly calibrated. They used to be calibrated precisely, but I haven’t recalibrated in a while.
Btw John do you run full Triton method?
If yes, care to share your experince amd regimen maybe on a new thread?
Am trying to learn Triton more and was looking for someone with experience to vet the success of the method..

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: JVU

Coral reefer

BOD
Staff member
Oh, no. Last two posts are blowing my mind. When I got dosers set up, I sadly went to “set it and forget it,” thinking it would be okay without worry or attention. Okay, maybe I did know better than to do that and just jumped off the lazy cliff. Oy.
I think the big easy to spot difference is triton involves no water changes and I definitely do water changes. I use reef crystals which has high ca and mg
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Ooh. Checking doser calibration after time? Nope. Changed tubing? Nope.
If you want accuracy and consistency you have to change the tubings.
Most dosers nowdays sell the whole doser head subassembly that comes with the roller and tubing assembled already.

In all honesty it depend on what type of coral you host. Lps and softies are much more forgiving.
Also its tradeoffs between how many times you want to test vs maintain the pumps.
If you test at least every now and then (depend on the coral) you do not have to worry whole lot about your doser. But you will still need to change it lile annually or every 18 months...


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I think the big easy to spot difference is triton involves no water changes and I definitely do water changes. I use reef crystals which has high ca and mg
I never got over the no water change thing..that's why am trying to find someone who can vet the no water change..does it really work??
@JVU care to open a thread about yoir experience with Triton? Sorry if am volunteering you ha ha

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Top