Kessil

Apex Trident Pros and Cons

RandyC

Supporting Member
Testing exists to help keep things stable and minimize crashes. In an ideal world, when dosing two part in equal amounts, there really shouldn't be an issue under normal circumstances when you maintain everything well and nothing breaks. But that's just it, testing frequently (more than once every 1-2 months) really isn't just to confirm what you're doing is correct. It's to help minimize potentially disasterous issues from getting out of hand. Whether it is because of equipment failure (tubing wearing out, doser going wonky, a pump head dies, tubing gets clogged from precipitation, etc.) or human error (messed up mixing two part solution, turn off one of the dosers and forget to turn it on, etc.), you want to catch these errors before they get real bad.

For those of us that watch our tanks like hawks, we can usually eyeball stuff like this or we're constantly checking out our equipment for failures. For the casual hobbyist or people that don't have the time to treat their tanks like babies, not so much. So I'd still recommend that people test Ca and Mg more frequently than once every couple months.

Of course, using a calcium reactor changes the conversation quite a bit, but what percentage of reefers use a calcium reactor? I'd venture to guess 1 out of 10 at most. I'm one of those few that run a calcium reactor (multiple actually).

So that being said and back to the original topic, I am completely happy with my Trident(s). It saves me time from testing multiple tanks. And though not what most people will use it for, I loaded a 2 month old frag/growout tank with 40+ acro frags at the same time and Trident let me stay on top of alk consumption and adjust my calcium reactor as needed.

Could I live without the daily Ca and Mg testing since I use a calcium reactor? Yeah, of course. But if I was using two part and dosing magnesium, I'd for sure want Ca and Mg tested at least weekly, if not daily, for the peace of mind that everything is functioning as it should and if it's not, I can be alerted quickly.

Edit: Oh, two things that I do hate:

- the priming process takes forever when changing to new reagents and seems wasteful of reagents
- Trident leaves, at least what I think, too much reagent in the bottle before it complains about being low on reagent. I think it could get another 3-5 tests squeaked out, but I understand the need for a buffer
 
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EBJ

Supporting Member
Testing exists to help keep things stable and minimize crashes. In an ideal world, when dosing two part in equal amounts, there really shouldn't be an issue under normal circumstances when you maintain everything well and nothing breaks. But that's just it, testing frequently (more than once every 1-2 months) really isn't just to confirm what you're doing is correct. It's to help minimize potentially disasterous issues from getting out of hand. Whether it is because of equipment failure (tubing wearing out, doser going wonky, a pump head dies, tubing gets clogged from precipitation, etc.) or human error (messed up mixing two part solution, turn off one of the dosers and forget to turn it on, etc.), you want to catch these errors before they get real bad.

For those of us that watch our tanks like hawks, we can usually eyeball stuff like this or we're constantly checking out our equipment for failures. For the casual hobbyist or people that don't have the time to treat their tanks like babies, not so much. So I'd still recommend that people test Ca and Mg more frequently than once every couple months.

Of course, using a calcium reactor changes the conversation quite a bit, but what percentage of reefers use a calcium reactor? I'd venture to guess 1 out of 10 at most. I'm one of those few that run a calcium reactor (multiple actually).

So that being said and back to the original topic, I am completely happy with my Trident(s). It saves me time from testing multiple tanks. And though not what most people will use it for, I loaded a 2 month old frag/growout tank with 40+ acro frags and Trident let me stay on top of alk consumption and adjust my calcium reactor as needed.

Could I live without the daily Ca and Mg testing since I use a calcium reactor? Yeah, of course. But if I was using two part and dosing magnesium, I'd for sure want Ca and Mg tested at least weekly if not daily. For the peace of mind that everything is functioning as it should and if it's not, I can be alerted quickly.

Edit: Oh, two things that I do hate:

- the priming process takes forever when changing to new reagents and seems wasteful of reagents
- Trident leaves, at least what I think, too much reagent in the bottle before it complains about being low on reagent. I think it could get another 3-5 tests squeaked out, but I understand the need for a buffer
Sometimes I just reset the reagent container that is "empty" and run a few more tests.

Have you tried not priming after replacing the reagent? I was thinking about trying that. Maybe the next reading would be significantly off.
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
Btw John do you run full Triton method?
If yes, care to share your experince amd regimen maybe on a new thread?
Am trying to learn Triton more and was looking for someone with experience to vet the success of the method..

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I run almost the full Triton method. I can talk about it more on another thread or maybe my tank journal thread. I do like the rational approach to testing and supplementation with strong biological nutrient export.

The 2 main things I don’t do are:
- I don’t obsessively supplement every trace element as they recommend in theIr ICP test results (seems like BS to me).
- I don’t try to actively avoid occasional water changes, I still do them but usually in the context of maintenance like cleaning the sand, or some other project like my current aiptasia/berghia tanks. Nor do I feel compelled to do the numerous water changes recommended by ICP results when I have a trace amount of some heavy metal that we don’t know anything about the biological effect or how it got there. I definitely do a lot fewer than before Triton.

This approach has been working well for me. My coral growth and health are the best they’ve ever been, but there are more factors than just Triton of course.
 

RandyC

Supporting Member
Sometimes I just reset the reagent container that is "empty" and run a few more tests.
I haven't tried just resetting it, but knowing me, I'd do that then forget to change it until I get an out of range testing result. And there's that borderline result where you have to question the result because you were just a teeny bit shy of enough reagent.

Have you tried not priming after replacing the reagent? I was thinking about trying that. Maybe the next reading would be significantly off.
Can try that, but you'd either get a completely wacky result or something that was untrustworthy (and a little bit off) because the test mixed old and new reagent.
 
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Flagg37

Supporting Member
I never got over the no water change thing..that's why am trying to find someone who can vet the no water change..does it really work??
@JVU care to open a thread about yoir experience with Triton? Sorry if am volunteering you ha ha

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I decided to try no water changes shortly after I upgraded from a 30 gallon to a 120. I did my first water change after my initial cycle to get the nitrates down. Then there was a brief time that I did an auto water change but felt like the water was just being wasted. After that I decided to not do water changes. My nutrient export was being handled by my fuge and I was dosing kalk (not from my ato but dosing based on uptake) for my major elements. It soon became apparent that I needed to dose trace elements as well so I started dosing the Red Sea colors (ABCD). In particular the iron was needed to sustain the chaeto. I only did one other water change when I had cyano and used chemiclean (it says to do a water change after using it).
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I decided to try no water changes shortly after I upgraded from a 30 gallon to a 120. I did my first water change after my initial cycle to get the nitrates down. Then there was a brief time that I did an auto water change but felt like the water was just being wasted. After that I decided to not do water changes. My nutrient export was being handled by my fuge and I was dosing kalk (not from my ato but dosing based on uptake) for my major elements. It soon became apparent that I needed to dose trace elements as well so I started dosing the Red Sea colors (ABCD). In particular the iron was needed to sustain the chaeto. I only did one other water change when I had cyano and used chemiclean (it says to do a water change after using it).
I will open a new thread to discuss Triton so we do not dilute this thread. But I would love to aggregate our collective experince about Triton in one thread..

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thanh510

Supporting Member
I will open a new thread to discuss Triton so we do not dilute this thread. But I would love to aggregate our collective experince about Triton in one thread..

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Sounds like a plan! I would love to hear people’s thoughts on it.


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rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
I used to think that Ca and Mg could be tested rarely and not really worried about if you dose proportional amounts, like a few people have said here. With that mentality firmly in place, my Ca and Mg values slowly increased over the past 1-2 years, were getting to problematic levels, and now have taken a long time to (nearly) correct over the past couple months! The correction has been a pain, with lots of testing, supplementary Alk added every day manually, etc. I use Triton, which specifically says to dose proportional amounts based only on Alk levels. I can tell you with certainty that that is an approximation, not an absolute truth.

Now I’m not saying that I need to test Ca and Mg every day like the Triton is designed to do. That part annoys me too. But to say you’ll test for them every few months or longer, or just not test for them because you believe in the proportionality as an absolute, is taking a real risk if you have a lot of stony coral.
If I remember, you do not do regular water changes.
As such, even small trace elements can slowly drift.
You trade one hassle for another.
 

JVU

BOD
Staff member
I just figured out that my Triton 3-part hasn’t been dosing as reliably as I thought. To my embarrassment, it’s my own fault. When you set up the DOS one of the recommendations is to set a command that if pH > 8.4 then skip the current dose. My pH has been reading high lately (past due to recalibrate), so has been triggering this every day, but not consistently. Since each part doses at a different time, they aren’t all equally affected, and each day has been dosing different amounts :mad:

The fix now is pretty straightforward, but I’m left wondering if this explains my recent difficulty with dosing and testing.

Anyway, I’m thankful that this thread got me thinking about this in more detail, which lead me to find this problem before it because a bigger problem.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I just figured out that my Triton 3-part hasn’t been dosing as reliably as I thought. To my embarrassment, it’s my own fault. When you set up the DOS one of the recommendations is to set a command that if pH > 8.4 then skip the current dose. My pH has been reading high lately (past due to recalibrate), so has been triggering this every day, but not consistently. Since each part doses at a different time, they aren’t all equally affected, and each day has been dosing different amounts :mad:

The fix now is pretty straightforward, but I’m left wondering if this explains my recent difficulty with dosing and testing.

Anyway, I’m thankful that this thread got me thinking about this in more detail, which lead me to find this problem before it because a bigger problem.
Man i would not take dosing decision based on a prob....

Glad you caught this...


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Flagg37

Supporting Member
This is CArx not tester..

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Right, I was just hoping that since it was an automatic one that it would test also. It is interesting that it’s got that photometer to tell if the lights are on and will adjust the effluent up/down based off of that.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Right, I was just hoping that since it was an automatic one that it would test also. It is interesting that it’s got that photometer to tell if the lights are on and will adjust the effluent up/down based off of that.
I pair khg with dastaco CArx. Very powerful solution

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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Expensive f-all solution too.
Yeh no kidding.

I chose this combo because
For the kh tester, Khg was by far the cheapest kh tester options.

For the CArx, when I compare the cost of dastaco (that includes everything except the co2) to the cost of any decent CArx after you add all what's needed the diffrence is not that much btw.

Dastaco is expensive but worth every penny. Its set and forget. I did not want to go through the bubble counting route.


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Vhuang168

Supporting Member
While the ratio of Alk/Ca uptake for stony coral growth is fairly well documented, there are other processes that use 1 more than the other.

If you use GFO regularly, it absorbs Alk. If you adjust your CaRx solely based on that, it will slowly increase your Ca levels over time.

In my tank, I use only a CaRx Alk drops but Ca doesn’t. This was determined before the Trident was a thing. So I’ve always dosed more Alk than Ca. Doesn’t matter what 2 part I use, it is never even in my tank.

Some calcifying growths like sponges will take up Ca but not Alk. Your Ca uptake is now not in ratio with your Alk uptake.

I tune my CaRx based on Ca values. I use my DOS to adjust my Alk. Now I’m using the Trident to control Alk dosing only. No Ca dosed.

My 2 cents. Every tank is NOT the same. Do not assume that just because your good buddies tank uses Alk/Ca in ratio, your tank will to.


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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
While the ratio of Alk/Ca uptake for stony coral growth is fairly well documented, there are other processes that use 1 more than the other.

If you use GFO regularly, it absorbs Alk. If you adjust your CaRx solely based on that, it will slowly increase your Ca levels over time.

In my tank, I use only a CaRx Alk drops but Ca doesn’t. This was determined before the Trident was a thing. So I’ve always dosed more Alk than Ca. Doesn’t matter what 2 part I use, it is never even in my tank.

Some calcifying growths like sponges will take up Ca but not Alk. Your Ca uptake is now not in ratio with your Alk uptake.

I tune my CaRx based on Ca values. I use my DOS to adjust my Alk. Now I’m using the Trident to control Alk dosing only. No Ca dosed.

My 2 cents. Every tank is NOT the same. Do not assume that just because your good buddies tank uses Alk/Ca in ratio, your tank will to.


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Indeed every tank is diffrent. This is the first time I hear of tuning the carx based on ca not alk...even the latest auto carx out there like dastaco control the reactor for alk not ca...
When I want to reduce my ca, while rarly, I simply turn off my CArx and dose alk for a day or so until I have the ratio I seek then turn in carx again. This have occured in the past when I add gfo or po4 remover cause indeed po4 remover tend to suck alk..

You learn something new every day:)
 
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