got ethical husbandry?

Bangai’s bred in my tank!

It's so interesting how they're "easy" in a sense compared to other fish that need crazy specific copepods or other invertebrate diets at different stages, but still require live feeding. I've heard of people finding small ones in their sumps that have survived off of junk going over the overflow.
 
Darkxerox said:
It's so interesting how they're "easy" in a sense compared to other fish that need crazy specific copepods or other invertebrate diets at different stages, but still require live feeding. I've heard of people finding small ones in their sumps that have survived off of junk going over the overflow.
Click to expand...
Agreed. They took to live brine easily. At the same time they are fully developed when they come out of the male’s mouth. Don’t have to worry about hatching or larval stages let alone microscopic diets.
 
Last edited:
Well,
Week 9.5 update. Some changes and a bit of bad news. I was able to switch them over to a 20g long tank yesterday. A big thank you to JVU for letting me borrow the tank.

The bad news is this morning I found two had passed away. The rest are all active and eating. I am not sure if they died from the stress or the "sudden fright syndrome" I read about online. From the information I gathered the "sudden fright syndrome" tends to happen within the first few weeks. I have been supplementing their diet with selcon and vitamin supplements.

I am still on the fence about their filtration. They still seem to small to avoid being sucked into the grate of the HOB filter. Fow now I continue to use the sponge filter with an air pump. I still can't get them to eat dead foods reliably. This is a big concern because I will be out of town for 9 days in the near future. My plan is to stock the tank with several bottles of pods prior to my departure and hope that between this and the frozen foods it will be enough. We'll see how it goes.

This is definitely a labor of love. I was talking to Cos at Calikid. I am surprised given these are all pretty much captive bred that their have not been any cool mutations developed like they have for clownfish. Maybe one day they will have an albino, longfin (err longer fin), or different color morph. Who knows. If they do that might drive up the price and make these worth breeding. My son is still getting a big kick out of these. I would love to find another adult male to try again sometime. Waiting a year for them to mature is too long.

Oh well, bummed about the loss of two, but happy about the new digs. We'll see what happens. Wish me luck!

Gerry
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6780.jpeg
    IMG_6780.jpeg
    135.3 KB · Views: 57
Last edited:
gmdcdvm said:
Well,
Week 9.5 update. Some changes and a bit of bad news. I was able to switch them over to a 20g long tank yesterday. A big thank you to JVU for letting me borrow the tank.

The bad news is this morning I found two had passed away. The rest are all active and eating. I am not sure.
Click to expand...
Do you think the stress of the tank transfer likely caused the two deaths?
 
B the Nano Reefer said:
Do you think the stress of the tank transfer likely caused the two deaths?
Click to expand...
Yes. They were all doing fine before the move. From what I read the sudden fright syndrome may be either a nutritional issue, neuro issue, or just stress. These guys are so tiny and likely fragile that I don't really know. I could have easily injured them when trying to scoop them out since they all huddled together at the bottom corners of the tank. Live brine has unfortunately been their staple diet with occasional live pods thrown in. I wish I could figure out how to tempt them to eat other things. Oh well, this was all happenstance. Been learning a lot as I go.
 
Week 10 update:
Can't believe it has been 10 weeks already. I will admit this is getting a little old and repetitive. The good news is we only lost two fish during the transfer to the large tank. At the same time I am starting to see them eat more of the frozen foods but nowhere near reliably enough to switch from live foods.
I have been having some recent bad luck with some of the batches of brine shrimp. I suspect with the change in temperature the overall water temp for the hatcheries is too low. I don't really see a good way to warm it up that would be simple Anyone have ideas? The house is cold since we tend to have the door open for the dogs to go in and out while we are home.

There is no space for heater in the actual containers. But, I do have a small betta tank heater. I could potentially set it up like a double broiler where I place the containers in a pan with water and then place the heater in the pan. This would likely keep them warm enough. Thoughts??

With the larger size tank I have noticed the fish are more spread out now. I have also seen some more chasing/aggression which I assume are territorial disputes between neighbors. I guess they are no longer buying into the "safety in numbers" thing.

Interestingly, despite having several areas they can hide in they tend to stay out in the open water now. They have gotten use to the very large shadow that comes by several times a day for feed them. They no long dart for cover or try to hide in the corners. They are on the clock now for frozen foods. We will be away for a week later this month and the aquarium sitter is not going to be indulging their luxurious live brine shrimp meals. My plan is to stock the tank heavily with live pods prior to leaving town and hope between that and the frozen pods it will be enough. It would be a serious bummer to lose them all after all this work, but it is what it is for now.

That is it for this week. More to come next week!

G
 
I have had great luck in the past hatching brine and I’ve got the equipment still if you ever need hand with hatching food for them
 
gmdcdvm said:
Week 10 update:
Can't believe it has been 10 weeks already. I will admit this is getting a little old and repetitive. The good news is we only lost two fish during the transfer to the large tank. At the same time I am starting to see them eat more of the frozen foods but nowhere near reliably enough to switch from live foods.
I have been having some recent bad luck with some of the batches of brine shrimp. I suspect with the change in temperature the overall water temp for the hatcheries is too low. I don't really see a good way to warm it up that would be simple Anyone have ideas? The house is cold since we tend to have the door open for the dogs to go in and out while we are home.

There is no space for heater in the actual containers. But, I do have a small betta tank heater. I could potentially set it up like a double broiler where I place the containers in a pan with water and then place the heater in the pan. This would likely keep them warm enough. Thoughts??

With the larger size tank I have noticed the fish are more spread out now. I have also seen some more chasing/aggression which I assume are territorial disputes between neighbors. I guess they are no longer buying into the "safety in numbers" thing.

Interestingly, despite having several areas they can hide in they tend to stay out in the open water now. They have gotten use to the very large shadow that comes by several times a day for feed them. They no long dart for cover or try to hide in the corners. They are on the clock now for frozen foods. We will be away for a week later this month and the aquarium sitter is not going to be indulging their luxurious live brine shrimp meals. My plan is to stock the tank heavily with live pods prior to leaving town and hope between that and the frozen pods it will be enough. It would be a serious bummer to lose them all after all this work, but it is what it is for now.

That is it for this week. More to come next week!

G
Click to expand...
You could use a heating pad under the hatchery, like is commonly used for terrariums. I think I have an extra if you want it.

I’m not personally experienced with this, but I see people freeze freshly hatched brine shrimp in small cubes, or flat in a ziplock where it’s easy to break. You could try that since it’ll be exactly the same as their normal food, just not alive.
 
Have you considered putting freshly decapsulated eggs directly in the water? Would be interesting to see if they eat the eggs, and if they didn't you could hope enough hatch that they get 100% fresh ones to eat as they grow/hatch.

You could try minimize the risk of non-eaten, non-hatching, eggs rotting in the tank by putting them in a container of some sort, or adding slowly.

Decapsulate -> rinse -> store in brine solution -> have sitter take some out and put in tank.
 
When my baby Bangaii were about the size yours are (per recent photo you posted) they would eat the little particles left from thawed Formula 1 or Formula 2 food. Maybe you’ve tried that-it would be a lot easier.
 
Week 11 update:
For now it is a lot of rinse, wash, and repeat. Have not lost any more since the transfer to the new tank. Honestly, I have been working a lot this last week which means I have not had the time to study them closely. All I can say is they are still alive. The meals remain the same, but with less live brine. Hopefully, they will figure it out because they are on the clock. In one week they are on their own or they fail. Fingers crossed at least some of them figure it out.

I have a 60 gallon cube that only has one rhomboid wrasse who finished his QT and has been under observation in this tank for a month now. I did not want him in the main display until I have time to observe closely for aggression from the other wrasses. So, for now he is the only inhabitant. I don't have enough experience with these guys, but he seems very chill. Just wondering if you think I can try putting all the babies in there with him??

That is it for now.

Gerry
 
Week 12.5 update:
Finally catching up after being out of town for 9 days. No update last week since I was on vacation from work and fishing rearing. I got home Tuesday and my pet sitter mentioned there was one death in the baby tank. Unfortunately, she did not take it out. So, first thing I did at 11p Tuesday night was fish out the dead body that was partially decomposed and floating at the top of the tank along with resetting the brine shrimp hatcheries. On Wednesday I was able to do a better assessment. Did a 5g water change due to all the accumulated food that built up along the bottom of the tank. Very surprising given the bioload and fish waste that the ammonia alert badge was still showing safe and all of the remaining fish seemed to be doing well. I did feed them frozen pods and while they did eat them it is no where near as voracious as they go after the brine shrimp. Some of them look a little thin, but still active. I am hoping I have some brine shrimp by tomorrow. With the cold weather and lower temp in the home they take longer to hatch. Unfortunately, Cos did not have any live pods for me this week and I don't want to make the drive to find some today or tomorrow. Fingers crossed they hang in there.

I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, but I think if they continue to eat frozen food reliably they will be ready to be sold in another 3-4 weeks. That would put them at 4 to 4.5 months. For those of you who expressed an interest keep in mind these guys are small. They are probably the same size or a litter smaller than the ones you see in the stores that are also captive bread. They should go into a tank without any type of aggressive or territorial fish. They are not aggressive feeders and at this age seem very skittish. I don't think they would compete well in tanks with larger fish or fish that feed aggressively.

We'll see how it goes.
Gerry
 
Week 13.5 update
Kind of got off schedule for the updates, but figured I would keep moving along. I ended up losing one other baby shortly after the last post. It looks like the larger fish are definitely eating the frozen pods and calanus. This guy was on the smaller side so I suspect he was still too reliant on live foods while I was gone, or he could not compete with some of the larger fish. Now that the fish seem strong enough to swim away I plan on adding better filtration. I picked up one of the marineland submersible water filter/polisher filters. I will have to make sure the intake suction is not too strong for these guys. The rest of the fish look good, and most have leaned to come to the surface when I open the lid for feedings. No other updates for now. I think next month I can finally post these guys for sale. I will have to do another count, but I think there are between 18-23 left. I think we started with around 24 fish. So far the overall success rate is pretty good.

I honestly don't know how anyone could make money breeding these guys. While they are relatively popular fish they are not expensive fish. I can't imagine what the wholesale price on these must be. I mentioned this before, but it just seems like too much work. At least with clown fish you can get so many more fry with each breeding, and the designer clowns can be sold for more money. You are also able to breed the clownfish much faster with less risk of losing one of the fish. You don't have to watch the clowns waiting to see when they might spit up the babies either. These guys just don't seem to produce the numbers you would need, and they take too long to grow and be able to sell them. The only pro I can see is that they start off eating large food like live brine instead of having to culture microscopic foods. Good thing I still have my day job since I am not quite ready to be a fish breeder.

I will post some updated pics and videos this weekend.

Gerry
 
gmdcdvm said:
Week 13.5 update
Kind of got off schedule for the updates, but figured I would keep moving along. I ended up losing one other baby shortly after the last post. It looks like the larger fish are definitely eating the frozen pods and calanus. This guy was on the smaller side so I suspect he was still too reliant on live foods while I was gone, or he could not compete with some of the larger fish. Now that the fish seem strong enough to swim away I plan on adding better filtration. I picked up one of the marineland submersible water filter/polisher filters. I will have to make sure the intake suction is not too strong for these guys. The rest of the fish look good, and most have leaned to come to the surface when I open the lid for feedings. No other updates for now. I think next month I can finally post these guys for sale. I will have to do another count, but I think there are between 18-23 left. I think we started with around 24 fish. So far the overall success rate is pretty good.

I honestly don't know how anyone could make money breeding these guys. While they are relatively popular fish they are not expensive fish. I can't imagine what the wholesale price on these must be. I mentioned this before, but it just seems like too much work. At least with clown fish you can get so many more fry with each breeding, and the designer clowns can be sold for more money. You are also able to breed the clownfish much faster with less risk of losing one of the fish. You don't have to watch the clowns waiting to see when they might spit up the babies either. These guys just don't seem to produce the numbers you would need, and they take too long to grow and be able to sell them. The only pro I can see is that they start off eating large food like live brine instead of having to culture microscopic foods. Good thing I still have my day job since I am not quite ready to be a fish breeder.

I will post some updated pics and videos this weekend.

Gerry
Click to expand...
I think the wild ones are illegal to collect now so they'll be going up in price
 
gmdcdvm said:
I honestly don't know how anyone could make money breeding these guys. While they are relatively popular fish they are not expensive fish.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there's a reason why all these "designer" clownfish started popping up in the hobby, because breeding standard clownfish species simply wasn't profitable except at certain scales and even then there was a reason why tank bred/raised were 2-3x the cost of wild. But all those inbred mutants on the other hand! That's where the real money is! :)

edit: and by "started popping up" I mean quite a white ago, as in hobbyists would breed standard clownfish, but it wasn't proiftable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top