DeFarts' IM 50gal Lagoon Journey

[NATURAL_REEF]

I use JB Waterweld and then just super glue some sand around the epoxy to blend it in. I am terrible with gluing frags to rocks. I lose like 50% of my corals because my snails dislodge them and fall behind the rockwork.

I usually use Two Little Fishes Epoxy Stick in conjunction with Glue and never have any problem. Basically, Coral glue-epoxy stick-coral glue then the frag.
Also, do the same when I frag and work really well. Especially for SPS; seems to heal and encrust faster.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Basically, Coral glue-epoxy stick-coral glue then the frag.

I tried this recently when I was attaching a frag to rock and it worked great. I originally saw it on BRS page. I'm more interested in what to use for bonding rock to rock. I was looking at some different mortar types. But I may just stick to using a bunch of epoxy and just let it cure in the tank while it's cycling. Hopefully it holds.

 

[Coral reefer]

Nyos reef cement works pretty good. Cures quick
I don’t like the super fine sand. Moves around to easily

 

[NATURAL_REEF]

I tried this recently when I was attaching a frag to rock and it worked great. I originally saw it on BRS page. I'm more interested in what to use for bonding rock to rock. I was looking at some different mortar types. But I may just stick to using a bunch of epoxy and just let it cure in the tank while it's cycling. Hopefully it holds.

Yes, that what I was referring to (just frags/corals to rocks work.
I had tried E-macro 400 when I did the rockscapes and it was a bit hard to work with. It was a bit "too loose/runny". I wish there is something more "gooey".
I don't know of any cement that would work if you want to bond Rock to rock inside the tank.

 

[Darkxerox]

Seatak works really well on dry rock and it's closer to toothpaste consistency. It gets complicated with wet items though.

 

[derek_SR]

I'll offer a bit of a different perspective, or maybe just some advice. In my first couple of systems I built very elaborate aquascapes, but it was a huge pain to move anything or make adjustments. In this most recent build (6ft, 225gal) I haven't actually glued a single thing - just some rock piles. It's super nice to be able to make adjustments for flow, coral happiness, growth, or just aesthetics. Or, knock on wood, if I ever need to dip something for pests or pull a rock entirely.

Rock slides are a risk, I suppose, and I may add some epoxy in key areas down the road. But it's sure nice being able to move individual rocks around while the tank is young and things are settling in - and eventually (hopefully) coral growth will mostly obscure the aquascape anyway. Maybe not as relevant in a small tank, but just food for thought!

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Nyos reef cement works pretty good. Cures quick
I don’t like the super fine sand. Moves around to easily

I think I saw that on the BRS website. Any local shops carry it?

As for the sand, if it's mixed with other coarser type, similar to the Fiji Pink, have you found that to be an issue too? I have the Fiji Pink in my small fluval and it seems to all get mixed and move.

Seatak works really well on dry rock and it's closer to toothpaste consistency. It gets complicated with wet items though.

I haven't seen that one.

I'll offer a bit of a different perspective, or maybe just some advice.

In my first couple of systems I built very elaborate aquascapes, but it was a huge pain to move anything or make adjustments.

Always great to read a different view! Thanks. I did wonder about that.

In this most recent build (6ft, 225gal) I haven't actually glued a single thing - just some rock piles. It's super nice to be able to make adjustments for flow, coral happiness, growth, or just aesthetics. Or, knock on wood, if I ever need to dip something for pests or pull a rock entirely.

I have 3 smaller pieces that are just leaning on each other in my nano tank. It does indeed make it easy to move things around and make adjustments. I like the idea of being able to rescape and make adjustments. I could in essence have a new looking tank with simple adjustments and new rock placements.

Rock slides are a risk, I suppose, and I may add some epoxy in key areas down the road. But it's sure nice being able to move individual rocks around while the tank is young and things are settling in - and eventually (hopefully) coral growth will mostly obscure the aquascape anyway. Maybe not as relevant in a small tank, but just food for thought!

Makes a lot of sense! I think I may try and make some rock structures from some of the smaller pieces. I may try to make some larger foundation pieces but nothing too large that it would be difficult to remove. Thanks for the wisdom!

 

[Coral reefer]

I’m not a fan of mixing. Get the size you want. When you mix they wind up just separating top and bottom ime

 

[ReyDeFarts]

I’m not a fan of mixing. Get the size you want. When you mix they wind up just separating top and bottom ime

Yes. I have noticed that with the Fiji Pink I got. The finer sand has slowly moved up when fish and snails start throwing it around.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Leak test finished! Filled it with RODI yesterday and made a trip up to SJ. On my way, stopped by @Srt4eric to pickup the IM Fleece Roller to try out. Anybody have an extra roll I could buy? It still has some left, but I would like to get an entire new roll to test out before I decide to buy it or not.

Check out what else I got from Eric! Cool little mushroom cage. I have a few that need to get corralled and hopefully take hold to some rubble or this plate. Thanks again Eric!

The trip to SJ was really about picking up some rocks from @MarcosDelgado0 ! A bunch of really nice CaribSea coralline colored and these beauties from Salty Bottom Reef. Thanks again Marcos! Really appreciate this. Helping my tank get off in a great direction.

I'll be working on a general rockscape this afternoon with this rock and some of the others.

On top of that, he hooked it up with an ATO for my Fluval too! That tank will get its own journal too I suppose.

Since I was heading up north, why not go a little further and pick up another ATO for this this. Met up with @Hella_Salty650 and got this...plus a few extras since I made the trip!

Thanks again Salty for the great deal on the ATO and these awesome coral! Hopefully I can keep them healthy and growing so they can eventually come into this tank. That's the goal.

Now the tank has salt and substrate. Waiting on my rockscape to get some updates pics. Thanks for tagging along BAR. CHEERS!

 

[salty_taste]

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Thanks again Salty for the great deal on the ATO and these awesome coral! Hopefully I can keep them healthy and growing so they can eventually come into this tank. That's the goal.
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Appreciate you making the trip! Can't wait to follow along your build setup. Got yourself a nice little haul, if for whatever reason corals dont make it, I'll replace them all no problem.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Appreciate you making the trip! Can't wait to follow along your build setup. Got yourself a nice little haul, if for whatever reason corals dont make it, I'll replace them all no problem.

Appreciate that Salty! Blessings man.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

I forgot to post up some pics. Got the tank filled! I put in a few of the rocks I got recently. I've added more since to keep it cycling but I'm going to be doing a decent amount of shaping so I'll end up taking them out while I'm bonding them together.

Here's a few more pieces I added. Again...no shaping done yet.

Side view and

Check out some of the life already there!
Some sort of sponge

Some feather duster worms

And I have zero clue what this is...but I could have sworn it moved at some point. Either it's dead and the current moved it a little or...
Does anyone know what this is?!

Also, I have some of these pieces of what appear to be real coral. Not the marco rock below.
Could someone confirm please?

 

[Darkxerox]

The Caribbean rock from salty bottom will have live oysters and other bivalves, sponges, and some cup corals: https://www.saltybottomreefcompany.com/liverock

 

[ReyDeFarts]

The Caribbean rock from salty bottom will have live oysters and other bivalves, sponges, and some cup corals: https://www.saltybottomreefcompany.com/liverock

It looks like it is a bivalve, which I needed to look up. I may have a few smaller ones in there too. So, I should definitely be feeding some powdered food then to not starve them while the tank is cycling? Is it actually cycling still, if everything is alive? I understand it is certainly not a mature tank. I've got a long way to go until I can say that about this tank.

I'm curious xerox and @under_water_ninja , about the traditional cycling process. Considering I've used live rock and sand, does that mean, I have drastically reduced the timeline for the ammonia and nitrite spikes? Because right now, I have zero. After I've finished scaping, I can then proceed with adding a few coral? Then a week or two after, a few CUCs. After a month or two, then fish? This allows the tank to populate all the beneficial bacteria needed to support the fish bioload at that point?

 

[derek_SR]

I would add a couple small fish (maybe the clowns?) along with the coral as soon as you're done scaping. That'll help keep the bacterial biome going and growing. Your tank is very likely processing ammonia now if it is zero and you used live rock. Especially if you see life. People want to be cautious during the beginning, but IMO going too slow can be bad too - you end up just growing a bunch of algae and then battling algae forever. Get some life in there, IMO. I wouldn't put a $300 acro frag in, of course, but definitely 1-2 small fish and some cheap hardy corals and invertebrate herbivores.

One thing you could do is add a drop of two of ammonia, or a small pinch of pellet food if you don't have any, and see if your tank processes it quickly. My guess is that it will!

Kenny will prob tell you to do the same - he starts his tanks the same way.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

One thing you could do is add a drop of two of ammonia, or a small pinch of pellet food if you don't have any, and see if your tank processes it quickly. My guess is that it will!

I do have ammonia I could try. Earlier today, after I saw the feather duster worms, I added some phytoplankton and then I tossed in a very small chopped up piece of frozen music. Figured it would help feed whatever is in there. I was thinking of feeding some of that phytoplankton every day.

I would add a couple small fish (maybe the clowns?) along with the coral as soon as you're done scaping. That'll help keep the bacterial biome going and growing.

I was under the impression that Kenny (is that @under_water_ninja btw?) introduced fish later in the process since they have the highest bioload. It gives the tank time to increase the beneficial bacteria to high enough numbers that the fish wouldn't cause a spike. A fishless cycle but still a livestock cycle, except with coral at first and then inverts. I honestly don't have a complete grasp on his way, but I need to find it. I'm sure it's in here somewhere.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

@SepToob

Dinoflagellates: Who has beat them?

I do t know what species I have. They are still in the tanks. There are pics in my tank journals. The combo of microbacter clean, pods and live phyto worked well for me. Yes, thank you. These are good things to do, the version I have needs also the silicate as it is apparently a harder type to...

www.bareefers.org

Dinoflagellates: Who has beat them?

I do t know what species I have. They are still in the tanks. There are pics in my tank journals. The combo of microbacter clean, pods and live phyto worked well for me. Yes, thank you. These are good things to do, the version I have needs also the silicate as it is apparently a harder type to...

www.bareefers.org

 

[derek_SR]

I do have ammonia I could try. Earlier today, after I saw the feather duster worms, I added some phytoplankton and then I tossed in a very small chopped up piece of frozen music. Figured it would help feed whatever is in there. I was thinking of feeding some of that phytoplankton every day.

I was under the impression that Kenny (is that @under_water_ninja btw?) introduced fish later in the process since they have the highest bioload. It gives the tank time to increase the beneficial bacteria to high enough numbers that the fish wouldn't cause a spike. A fishless cycle but still a livestock cycle, except with coral at first and then inverts. I honestly don't have a complete grasp on his way, but I need to find it. I'm sure it's in here somewhere.

Yep that's Kenny, you should get your fish at his shop - High Tide Aquatics in Oakland. You can also watch the niners there on Sundays

Your tank is already "cycled," (assuming your ammonia is still reading zero after adding frozen whatever) so it's not really a fishless cycle at this point - you can add a small fish now. Waiting doesn't really accomplish anything unless you continue to manually feed ammonia to the tank to grow the bacteria. Adding a small fish that starts producing ammonia will help the bacterial population grow, so you can add another fish in a week or two, then another...and so on. Also, typically inverts are more sensitive than fish - so adding inverts before fish if you think your tank isn't ready for life doesn't make a lot of sense. But your tank is consuming ammonia so a small fish is fine!

Coral don't cycle a tank (although they could bring along bacteria that does...), they don't produce ammonia - they consume ammonia.

 

[ReyDeFarts]

Yep that's Kenny, you should get your fish at his shop - High Tide Aquatics in Oakland. You can also watch the niners there on Sundays

I'm definitely going to make a trip up there one of these days. It's a multi-hour drive for me each way unfortunately. When I do it though, I want to be as ready as possible and make my way up there with a container and heater running.

not much of a football fan these days...and definitely NOT a niners fan.

Your tank is already "cycled," (assuming your ammonia is still reading zero after adding frozen whatever) so it's not really a fishless cycle at this point - you can add a small fish now.

I will do more test tomorrow. Typically, how long would it be before the decomposition of organics begin producing ammonia though? I didn’t add too much actually. Not sure if that quantity vs the volume would even register any ammonia.

Waiting doesn't really accomplish anything unless you continue to manually feed ammonia to the tank to grow the bacteria. Adding a small fish that starts producing ammonia will help the bacterial population grow, so you can add another fish in a week or two, then another...and so on.

That makes a lot of sense. I am still a bit scatter brained about which fish I want to add. My girls really want more clowns, so I may not have much of a choice there. I really would like to have a bunch of utilitarian fish that would thrive in this size tank.

Also, typically inverts are more sensitive than fish - so adding inverts before fish if you think your tank isn't ready for life doesn't make a lot of sense. But your tank is consuming ammonia so a small fish is fine!

I was basing that off something I read that Kenny wrote. Unless I completely misunderstood the directions he was suggesting to someone else. Also, there are inverts in there now and alive! So that's great news right?!

Coral don't cycle a tank (although they could bring along bacteria that does...), they don't produce ammonia - they consume ammonia.

That was my understanding as well. I was approaching this as if it was cycling, even though it appears the live rock has plenty of life already. Again, Kenny mentioned being able to add coral early on because they can handle the ammonia. I did not process that they would consume the ammonia/ammonium.

I appreciate all the insight Toob!