got ethical husbandry?

For those interested in buying G2 Red Sea tanks

Part of the issue with reporting is that there is no standardized way of reporting failure. I equate it to cars - the more of a car you see on the road the more likely we are to see them fail but do we hear about Honda accords littering the road or ppl reporting about their expensive car with the engine seizing up - think Range Rover. I complain about a product the more I pay for it and we know of many high end products with build issues but ppl keep buying them.

I’ve had one failure that was well-documented here and it wasn’t a Red Sea. I have a RS250 that I got 2nd hand from Caroline a few years back and a RS850 G2 (warranty replacement of a G1). The stand on the 250 is suspect - particle board - but I haven’t had spills around it so it looks great except for some minor rusting around the hinges. The G2 850 looks bullet-proof from top to bottom.
 
Poor customer service doesn’t help their cause. I say they have a bigger issue with that. For as expensive as the item is a 1-3 yr warranty is piss poor.
 
I have nothing to add to the conversation, but just a data point. First gen Red Sea Reefer 250. I had it running for 4-5 years and I know the person I sold it to still has it running as well. So that puts it at 6-7 years old.

One thing I will say being that I have sold and re-sold a number of tanks, people’s version of clean and “seals are good” is very subjective. I think some are definitely a little rougher with the magnetic cleaners than they think they are and are doing some damage to their seals unknowingly. I don’t know if that’s contributed to the problem at all though.
 
Maybe RS hasn’t been sued by the right attorney yet

I miss Oceanic tanks
And from the east coast, all-glass aquariums
But not to go too far into the weeds, I can’t imagine have a large glass tank at my current location
 
I'm on the "maybe red sea just sells more" camp. Feels like it's hard to really tell. However I do think there's been enough weird issues that I look at my Red Sea tank and double check seals.

Regarding if the 9 out of 10 analysis works, it would be interesting to know relative sales volumes. Red Sea has very nice stuff, at a relatively good price compared to other similar items. My guess is a majority of tanks in the world are Petco style rimmed tanks. Probably orders of magnitude more than others, but that's a style that's not comparable.

After that, Red Sea seems like it's likely the highest of the fancy ones. Is it 10x others? Hard to say, but maybe? Probably should also consider the relative count of edgeless variations, where part of the issue is likely the style inherently is less supported.

Also might be that it's more common to resell Red Sea tanks than others. My guess is other brands are more common for people looking for a specific thing, whereas Red Sea might be the common style. A very specific type someone's buying might be less likely to be resold, and resold seems like it's probable for causing issues.

Overall it seems like Red Sea has a weird smell associated with it. Feels like the only way to ever know is someone suing and there being some legal discovery getting data and it being leaked (pun intended).
 
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For the record I have a G2 250. 2 1/2 yrs in -still going. Keeping fingers crossed on that. I do wish I had consulted the forum before we had purchased it (went “dry” in 2019).

That being said also have a roller mat, lights, dosers, and their ato -that all work well. Call me a shill!

But does it get to the argument that RS sells more tanks than any other company so it will have more failures just like the more you drive the higher likeliness of being in an accident.

But does RS really have a higher probability of leaking than other manufacturer? Let’s put it to the test -statistically speaking- I think it will be interesting given the depth of reef keepers in this forum.

I will start up a google sheet to start collecting data. From there I can export the data into SAS and compute both Odds ratios and perhaps hazard ratios (risk based on time).

Anyone up for a good design study?
This doesn’t address their crappy CS but that’s a different story
 
I think collecting info from this group would be interesting for sure. More definitive info could likely come from LFS who sell them, but I don't think it's really fair to publicly ask that info of them. Puts them in a no win situation.
 
Did not know that (see below) - why are we discussing Red Sea so much? Folks have great RS tanks - just saw a great RS 850 live on the weekend from a fellow member, also Casey’s is amazing etc. Should they sell their tanks now?

I recognize this is meant to be a warning for new Reefers but it is coming through as a feel bad moment for those who already made the investment. I even bought the Reefer Nano recently (used!) after already knowing about their issues with their tanks, and being as much anti RS as I am anti BRS, or Aperture etc, and I also bought their ATO (twice, returned one). Why - because the Reefer nano is still the only nano I know which has a sump, and the ATO has better features than what Tunze offers (when it works).

I am trying to say, the RS story is old, and not all tanks will break down, so being aware of signs is important, and they still have some good products. Just do not try to contact them for troubleshooting….


IMG_1963.jpeg
 
richiev said:
I think collecting info from this group would be interesting for sure. More definitive info could likely come from LFS who sell them, but I don't think it's really fair to publicly ask that info of them. Puts them in a no win situation.
Click to expand...
No way any LFS would put their reputation at risk if that leaked out who it was..
 
L/B Block said:
I will start up a google sheet to start collecting data. From there I can export the data into SAS and compute both Odds ratios and perhaps hazard ratios (risk based on time).
Click to expand...

Someone already started collecting data: https://humble.fish/community/threads/i-created-a-spreadsheet-of-reported-aquarium-failures.20411/
docs.google.com

Aquarium Failures

docs.google.com docs.google.com

The anecdotal evidence is enough for me to stay away from rimless Red Sea tanks. I have the Red Sea S-1000 but it's built like a tank and its features take away any worry. Bottom perimeter braced, armored seams, euro braced top (3 sides), aluminum stand, metal lip to support the front pane.
 
CaseyP said:
Someone already started collecting data: https://humble.fish/community/threads/i-created-a-spreadsheet-of-reported-aquarium-failures.20411/
docs.google.com

Aquarium Failures

docs.google.com docs.google.com

The anecdotal evidence is enough for me to stay away from rimless Red Sea tanks. I have the Red Sea S-1000 but it's built like a tank and its features take away any worry. Bottom perimeter braced, armored seams, euro braced top (3 sides), aluminum stand, metal lip to support the front pane.
Click to expand...


This sheet is of very limited use. We need to compare Red Sea tanks against other brands (including custom tanks ) adjusting for size of DT and other values and see if there truly is a significant difference in manufacturing defects between Red Sea and everyone else…
 
There's a separate tab for each known manufacturer. The problem I see (from a non stats person) is you don't know the total population of tanks out there.
 
CaseyP said:
There's a separate tab for each known manufacturer. The problem I see (from a non stats person) is you don't know the total population of tanks out there.
Click to expand...
These are all the failures -in a study we need to get a sample of tanks that have not failed and compare those against those that have failed -

It is feasible depending on the sample -I can match Red Sea tanks against other mfg (randomly) based on DT size (roughly) or time in operation and assess a probability of mfg defect -

Couple things I want to collect -not just time in operation but also DT size, use of leveling mat, entirely rimless or use of any “braces”, use of mfg stand or other..
hence is the problem the tank itself or other other issues that could potentially contribute to the problem.
 
CaseyP said:
Someone already started collecting data: https://humble.fish/community/threads/i-created-a-spreadsheet-of-reported-aquarium-failures.20411/
docs.google.com

Aquarium Failures

docs.google.com docs.google.com

The anecdotal evidence is enough for me to stay away from rimless Red Sea tanks. I have the Red Sea S-1000 but it's built like a tank and its features take away any worry. Bottom perimeter braced, armored seams, euro braced top (3 sides), aluminum stand, metal lip to support the front pane.
Click to expand...
I agree the better-braced Red Sea tanks likely make this a non-issue. If I were buying a new large tank now I’d go for one of those or similarly well-braced systems, not the large rimless RS 750 tank (gen 1 yikes) I have now. Which hasn’t leaked. Yet lol.
 
iani said:
What I am interested in seeing is how many of the tank failures were second hand aquariums (or moved).
Click to expand...
I was going to exclude these tanks or rather limit to those tanks in which were first owned by the person entering the data-but heck- we can add that variable for a secondary analysis.
 
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