I can't stop thinking of this light study
- Thread starter tuberider
- Start date
Tumbleweed
Guest
Trumpet!!!
tuberider
Guest
[quote author=Gomer link=topic=3968.msg46987#msg46987 date=1214286788]
ah. sound waves and light are very different. Light is electromagnetic radiation...just think of it as...a photon and ignore anything else lol. Sound waves do have energy, but all sound is, is a contraction or expansion of air pressure. Very different beasts. Comparing them would be like ...comparing Flower and Flour. Sure you can make very vague connections, but that is about it.
[/quote]Waves are waves, I'm a lumper what can I say. Certain frequencies are more apparent to different animals in different contexts. My confusion lies in a photosynthetic conundrum with coral, especially our high demand reefcrest animals. We are told that high PAR bulbs are more efficient, but this study contradicts the current ethos. Don't read to deep into what I am saying, I'm really not that smart.
ah. sound waves and light are very different. Light is electromagnetic radiation...just think of it as...a photon and ignore anything else lol. Sound waves do have energy, but all sound is, is a contraction or expansion of air pressure. Very different beasts. Comparing them would be like ...comparing Flower and Flour. Sure you can make very vague connections, but that is about it.
[/quote]Waves are waves, I'm a lumper what can I say. Certain frequencies are more apparent to different animals in different contexts. My confusion lies in a photosynthetic conundrum with coral, especially our high demand reefcrest animals. We are told that high PAR bulbs are more efficient, but this study contradicts the current ethos. Don't read to deep into what I am saying, I'm really not that smart.
Gomer
Guest
the real test would actually be an LED study since they are fairly discrete. Pick a coral with a know absorption profile. Use LEDs to give it "ideal" conditions. Measure the par. Now supply equal par by definition of par, yet with non ideal overlap. Now compare growth etc.
Heck, I'd almost be tempted to throw together a test rig for that if only it wasn't expensive lol (not terribly, but I don't have throw away cash after the vortech
)
Heck, I'd almost be tempted to throw together a test rig for that if only it wasn't expensive lol (not terribly, but I don't have throw away cash after the vortech
)
hiepatitis
Guest
I ran both the Aquaconnect 400w and Helios 400w on electronic ballasts. The Aquaconnect was giving my corals about 700+ on the PAR meter and the Helio is giving me 500-600. Visually the Aquaconnect was very white and almost pink to me. My corals started bleaching. Didn't have either up long enough to compare growth rates.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
maybe photosynthesis works like a solar cell (hey I might as well get my analogies in since Tony did ). In order to produce an electron you need a photon of a particular energy level, multiple photons of lower energy don't do anything except serve to heat up the material in question (Hey Einstein got the Nobel prize for it!). And since their corals in question were from a small sampling, perhaps they evolved the symbiotic algae from deeper depths such that they only register with blue light, other light doesn't do much.
So bottom line is the only useful energy for those corals in question more energetic photons to create food, where a bluer bulb have more blue light than a 10k bulb, it's just the 10k has light everywhere else as well.
). In order to produce an electron you need a photon of a particular energy level, multiple photons of lower energy don't do anything except serve to heat up the material in question (Hey Einstein got the Nobel prize for it!). And since their corals in question were from a small sampling, perhaps they evolved the symbiotic algae from deeper depths such that they only register with blue light, other light doesn't do much.So bottom line is the only useful energy for those corals in question more energetic photons to create food, where a bluer bulb have more blue light than a 10k bulb, it's just the 10k has light everywhere else as well.
tuberider
Guest
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=3968.msg47014#msg47014 date=1214314772]
maybe photosynthesis works like a solar cell (hey I might as well get my analogies in since Tony did). In order to produce an electron you need a photon of a particular energy level, multiple photons of lower energy don't do anything except serve to heat up the material in question (Hey Einstein got the Nobel prize for it!). And since their corals in question were from a small sampling, perhaps they evolved the symbiotic algae from deeper depths such that they only register with blue light, other light doesn't do much.
So bottom line is the only useful energy for those corals in question more energetic photons to create food, where a bluer bulb have more blue light than a 10k bulb, it's just the 10k has light everywhere else as well.
[/quote]Good analogy Mike.
This really makes me want a fish room bad so I could get some solid data.
maybe photosynthesis works like a solar cell (hey I might as well get my analogies in since Tony did
). In order to produce an electron you need a photon of a particular energy level, multiple photons of lower energy don't do anything except serve to heat up the material in question (Hey Einstein got the Nobel prize for it!). And since their corals in question were from a small sampling, perhaps they evolved the symbiotic algae from deeper depths such that they only register with blue light, other light doesn't do much.So bottom line is the only useful energy for those corals in question more energetic photons to create food, where a bluer bulb have more blue light than a 10k bulb, it's just the 10k has light everywhere else as well.
[/quote]Good analogy Mike.
This really makes me want a fish room bad so I could get some solid data.
G
GreshamH
Guest
Finally Ken releases that paper I was his lab last year checking out the study and getting the low down then. Keep an eye on Ken's articles, he's hooked
I was his lab last year checking out the study and getting the low down then. Keep an eye on Ken's articles, he's hooked
tuberider
Guest
[quote author=GreshamH link=topic=3968.msg47174#msg47174 date=1214411265]
Finally Ken releases that paper I was his lab last year checking out the study and getting the low down then. Keep an eye on Ken's articles, he's hooked
[/quote]He sure hooked me with that study, good to know Gresham, I will keep my eyes out for Ken's articles!
Finally Ken releases that paper
I was his lab last year checking out the study and getting the low down then. Keep an eye on Ken's articles, he's hooked [/quote]He sure hooked me with that study, good to know Gresham, I will keep my eyes out for Ken's articles!
corals b 4 bills
Guest
I like the music anology myself it makes it easier to understand and follow, I really understand now how corals absorb the light and what type and duration means to them. Very cool thread. Oh yea I get it now........F-RC ;D
Gomer
Guest
Mikes photocell analogy is also very important. If it wasn't clear, lets make a common analogy. If you try to shoot a 3 pointer twice in a row but only make it 1/2 the distance both times, it doesn't add up to actually getting the ball into the hoop.
(2 "red" photons, although they may add up to a "blue" photon in energy, do not function as a blue photon)
(2 "red" photons, although they may add up to a "blue" photon in energy, do not function as a blue photon)
G
GreshamH
Guest
study was[quote author=Gomer link=topic=3968.msg47183#msg47183 date=1214412285]
don't make me try and grow 2 frags, one under a white LED (blue with yellow phosphor) and one under a blue LED and match the PARs. Don't make me!!!!
[/quote]
You mean like the kid did for his 6th grade science fair and won it with that study?
don't make me try and grow 2 frags, one under a white LED (blue with yellow phosphor) and one under a blue LED and match the PARs. Don't make me!!!!
[/quote]
You mean like the kid did for his 6th grade science fair and won it with that study?
G
GreshamH
Guest
I'll try to find it...it was a decent experiment He used zoanthids and different color LEDS and measured growth. Maybe you could do SPS and watch both growth and color
He used zoanthids and different color LEDS and measured growth. Maybe you could do SPS and watch both growth and color
hiepatitis
Guest
Maybe I can find a 10k bulb that outputs the same PAR readings as my 20k and frag the same coral and place them on either side. I would but i don't have actinics and I hate the pure 10k look.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
[quote author=hiepatitis link=topic=3968.msg47210#msg47210 date=1214416613]
Maybe I can find a 10k bulb that outputs the same PAR readings as my 20k and frag the same coral and place them on either side.
[/quote]
You most likely will need to drop at least half the wattage (or more) to accomplish this but this would actually be a very interesting test to say the least. However replicating that in a single tank probably won't hold too much merit.
That being said a lot of parameters were probably held fixed. Multiple tanks of the same dimension, same water supply? Same method of flow for all of them, same placement of coral with respect to the light, etc.
Maybe I can find a 10k bulb that outputs the same PAR readings as my 20k and frag the same coral and place them on either side.
[/quote]
You most likely will need to drop at least half the wattage (or more) to accomplish this but this would actually be a very interesting test to say the least. However replicating that in a single tank probably won't hold too much merit.
That being said a lot of parameters were probably held fixed. Multiple tanks of the same dimension, same water supply? Same method of flow for all of them, same placement of coral with respect to the light, etc.
tuberider
Guest
Oh boy I get to necropost ;D!!!!!!! More data is cool though yeah!!!!!
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/12/aafeature1