New Info for the Feb '08 swap!! Please read!

[bookfish]

I think anytime we set a qualifying prerequisite on something it's going to exclude some people. I also think that BAR has been pretty clear for the last 8-10 months that we will be doing this kind of members only stuff. I think, as Norm said on RC, that the swap focus was good for a start but ultimately needed to be revised to fit the BAR mission. Also, nobody is excluded from the swap, just from picking in the general rounds. Despite that, I don't think anyone left empty-handed from the last swap.

 

[bookfish]

I feel it's irresponsible to give a bunch of frags to a bunch of people without doing something to try and insure those corals' survival. The best thing i can think of is to have these folks be active members of this community for a bit. Ideally, I'd like to be able to do what I did with Steve and Theresas tank and pay a visit, understand the system, make some personalized recommendations etc... but that's not possible with over 100 members and more all the time. I also think that what Jeremy was saying about getting coral, a piece or 2 at a time, from a fellow reefer (or a club program), is a far better way to begin stocking or restocking a tank. It's better for the corals and better for the transmission of care info than a swap exchange. Wouldn't it be nice if the swaps focused as much on information exchange as on coral exchange?

 

[LeviT]

As long as I'm allowed in since my official join date is the 13th I'm fine with it

 

[sfsuphysics]

It's more about trying to improve how we support the propagation focus of our mission statement.

I like, depending upon how it's done.

We're realizing that the current frag swap model may have been a good innovation in earlier times of the hobby, but it's time for us to move forward.

Frags are the first step in propagation, but frags have become a predominant part of the focus. Often to the detriment of the coral and thereby the reefs.

We need to look at the parenting aspect of keeping our corals. That's what will make propagation successful.

I do like this as well, except how does "frag swap" turn into a "learn how to care for your babies" event? Having an early requirement for being a member certaintly does keep those who simply want on the gravy train, but it doesn't do anything about those who are members who had a recently tank crash, etc and just need to "fill'er up" again. The meeting requirement is a good step, but only if the meetings are going to be informative towards the propagation of said corals.

If it weren't that the size of the venue with amount of the people showing up I'd say have a 30-60 minute "parenting" session before hand, similar to the propagation workshops, make the frag-swap check in end before this begins so that it's quasi-mandatory that you be there.

In nature, there are 2 contrasting strategies of reproduction and perpetuating a species:

1. A short lived organism invests a lot of energy in producing a vast number of offspring. There is no energy put into protecting and raising the young, and the parents die shortly after. Due to the ravages of nature, only very few of the offspring survive to continue the species.

2. A long lived organism produces a few offspring. There is considerable time and energy invested in protecting and caring for the young to insure its survival and the survival of the species.

Which strategy is more appropriate if we are trying to preserve something that is endangered?

Frag swaps are like the first model. A club can be more like the second model if its members are active in working together to support each other in the parenting aspect of coral care and propagation.

Corals are "short lived" ? I think it'll be more like a hybrid version between both, they have few "offspring" but they don't really care for them at all.

I think quite a few members that do work like a support net for others in rearing and keeping these guys alive, whether or not you can push that to be a majority of members .. ehh who knows.

However, and not putting down what the club has done, it seems the club has pushed #1 more so than #2. Take example of the BAR donated corals, you took large colonies and and made many "off-spring" essentially killing the parent (in a way). Now i know the idea (or I hope it was) is that the club does #1, and the members do #2. But I don't know if the club members see it as this, or if it's a "woohoo more corals" mentality still.

 

[jkreefer]

[quote author=LeviTillie link=topic=2395.msg24395#msg24395 date=1189876977]
As long as I'm allowed in since my official join date is the 13th I'm fine with it
[/quote]


"Be a BAR member in good standing as of 09/12/07"


I think a day too late

 

[LordHelmet]

After reading through this thread i understand why this is going on and i agree with it. this is not a club to join to get free frags (although i will admit it's what got me started). But a club to promote propagation of corals and the skills to care for them. And a free for all frag swap is not the way to get that done.
I for one am all for this and hope to further my reefkeeping skills to the point that every frag i take home will live and be fragged out to other reefers.

just the way i feel


Chris

 

[northbay-reefer]

First of all, I think

The cut off date has been in effect since the last frag swap, so their is no excuse for mebers that didnt keep their club membership current. I think it is fair the way it is.

As for the Free corals attitute, I dont think anything is free, members paid the dues, they buy raffles tickets, they attend events and they donate to events, and alot of the corals are donnated by our sponsors for the fact that this club has alot of members and they want to do bussiness with us and thats why they donnate. so these corals are not free. I dont think it would be fair to say free corals, members are not here for hand out, they are professionals working like you and I.

As for moving the club forward to support propragation, I totally agree with this,since this will sustain our hobby first of all, but most importanly it will lessen the strain on our reefs. But using the frag swap to promote this is like trying to send a message to 50 hungry people with delicious food in front of them, nice try, but good luck . I think it is best to promote this at pre-frag-swap-meetings and make certain meeting a requirement to talk about the purpose of the BAR mission so that when the frag swap comes around everyone will know what their responsibilities are.

 

[bookfish]

[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]
First of all, I think

The cut off date has been in effect since the last frag swap, so their is no excuse for mebers that didnt keep their club membership current. I think it is fair the way it is.

As for the Free corals attitute, I dont think anything is free, members paid the dues, they buy raffles tickets, they attend events and they donate to events, and alot of the corals are donnated by our sponsors for the fact that this club has alot of members and they want to do bussiness with us and thats why they donnate. so these corals are not free. I dont think it would be fair to say free corals, members are not here for hand out, they are professionals working like you and I.

As for moving the club forward to support propragation, I totally agree with this,since this will sustain our hobby first of all, but most importanly it will lessen the strain on our reefs. But using the frag swap to promote this is like trying to send a message to 50 hungry people with delicious food in front of them, nice try, but good luck . I think it is best to promote this at pre-frag-swap-meetings and make certain meeting a requirement to talk about the purpose of the BAR mission so that when the frag swap comes around everyone will know what their responsibilities are.


[/quote]first, i would like to point out that at the last swap, only 1 zoo rock was a donation, the other corals were purchased by the club at a cost of nearly $2K. Hardly free, and hardly a trivial outlay since it represented a good 1/4 of BAR's total cash assets. I also believe that our local sponsors donate to our raffles more out of a desire to support the club, which in turn supports successful hobbyists. Considering the fact that we don't do any BAR discount thing with the stores, and they know people buy much of their stuff online, I don't think it's about them directly profiting from this relationship.

 

[northbay-reefer]

Bookfish, maybe you missunderstood what I meant, the corals were purchased by the club and that is true, but the members are the people who make the club a club, and they are also the people who contribute to the club financially in one form or another right ? please correct me if I am wrong since am still pretty new to this club and might not know about other source of club's asset. I realy do want to learn about this club and is trying to contribute in one form or another.

The vendors are contributing and donating ... they are in a bussiness of selling, and they are advertising by donating to get their names out there for the purpose of investing and hoping of making a profit, their is nothing wrong with that right ? I didnt say that was wrong. Its just fact. This was proven by the club spending 2k for corals at our sponsors to return the favor. This doesn't mean that the vendors are not truely behind the cause. This relationship works for everyone IMO

 

[GreshamH]

Seems kinda moot to debate this change after the fact. The BOD meeting was open to all members and input was requested at the time. IMO the best time and place for this discussion has come and gone. Want to help out? Show up, voice your opinion. After all, everyone who helps out is just a volunteer.

 

[jkreefer]

[quote author=bookfish link=topic=2395.msg24365#msg24365 date=1189787044]
I'm always interested in everyones view on our decisions so feel free to comment on this.
[/quote]

 

[GreshamH]

[quote author=jkreefer link=topic=2395.msg24531#msg24531 date=1190077900]
[quote author=bookfish link=topic=2395.msg24365#msg24365 date=1189787044]
I'm always interested in everyones view on our decisions so feel free to comment on this.
[/quote]
[/quote]
And how does that change how I feel? Even if he's inviting discussion after that fact, that does not change the fact very few showed up to the BOD meeting and just as few volunteer in the club. Show up, step up, and voice your opinion. You can't complain about rules voted into place if you didn't voice your opinion at the proper time. The meeting was announced even if an agenda wasn't.

 

[jkreefer]

What are some things we can do volunteer? Some people (myself included) dont think about volunteering untill someone asks for help. So I am asking, what can i do to help?

(P.S. no one is trying to change how you feel)

 

[tuberider]

Northbay, I'm having trouble understanding your point. Were you offended by the "free corals" statements? You shouldn't be you seem to be an accomplished reefer.

I'm seriously having a hard time understanding your posts on this thread. I want to hear, what is it would you change? Why? It's very easy to critique, however to actually get involved and "do" is a different thing.

Yes, the funds from the members drive the club financially, but if it's simply a free for all then I'm out. Money is not the bottom line here. I've been in enough of those clubs (get as many members as possible, big raffles etc.), in fact if we did not have a frag swap, or raffles (I lose anyways) it's no sweat for me. I'm here to learn.


BTW, If I were a bettin' man I'd say (I don't know why....) that member attendance is much higher for the swaps than let's say a meeting on QTing corals.......

 

[GreshamH]

typical meeting is what, 20 - 50 members. Swaps are up in the hundreds. It's truly a no brianer.

 

[GreshamH]

[quote author=jkreefer link=topic=2395.msg24535#msg24535 date=1190078704]
What are some things we can do volunteer? Some people (myself included) dont think about volunteering untill someone asks for help. So I am asking, what can i do to help?

(P.S. no one is trying to change how you feel)
[/quote]

Then why the Bookfish quote following my post where I stated what I feel? I can read just as well as the next guy and surely didn't need to prompting of what Jim said earlier.

Simply attend a BOD meeting, it'll become very apperant what is needed to do. At bare min. every meeting needs something done, from set-up to strike.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Thanks for all the comments and discussion, everybody.

Sorry for not being able to post as much as I should on this thread. I know it can be kind of hard for people to understand where the BOD is coming from on some of the decisions.

I'll try to share some of the issues and ideas as time permits!

 

[jkreefer]

I oppologize, i misread your statement, i thought that you asked why it was being discussed. If i lived a little closer, i would attend BOD meetings.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

[quote author=bookfish link=topic=2395.msg24390#msg24390 date=1189871904]I think, as Norm said on RC, that the swap focus was good for a start but ultimately needed to be revised to fit the BAR mission.[/quote]

In some ways, BAR has become a victim of its own success. Yes the club has become known for its frag swaps, but it has gotten to the point where the swaps are the main or only thing that some prospective members become aware of.

As Gresham said, a regular meeting may have as few as(or even fewer than) 20 people in attendance. When we hold a regional swap, we have up to 300!

It's great to have the attention of 300 people, but we've found that the excitement over frags can overshadow the values, intents, and ideals behind BAR's mission. And if 250 of those people never become active participating members of the club outside of the swaps, it becomes very difficult for them even to know if they would like to support BAR's efforts.

We don't want to be an organization with an empty feel-good mission statement that looks great on paper, but means nothing in real life.

For the past several years, the BOD has struggled with these issues. We want people to join the club if they find they are in agreement with our values, not just because of a hyped up swap.

We are about propagation, and there is a BAR way that we go about it. Fragging and distributing frags is not propagation. It may be the first step, but it's no more propagation than a one night stand is to raising a child.

We want people to take their time to find out about BAR, so that they can see if the club is really what they want. And it's ok if it isn't. There are other clubs. Everybody likes something different, and that's perfectly fine.

One of the things we have been doing with our swaps and other members only activities is to establish a membership cut-off date for participation. It's a way to slow things down so that people really have a chance to get to know the club. The meeting attendance prerequisite is another decision with the same intent.

We've found that when people take the time to get to know each other in person, to become active participants in the club, to find out about the real BAR, they can enjoy a more rewarding experience as a member. And in turn, the club has a better chance of living up to its stated mission.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Gtg... more later...