Cali Kid Corals

Rodi trouble

Coral reefer

Past President
So recently my production dropped off drastically. I replaced the 10 micron, and both carbons, pressure had been down to 35-40 psi, went up to 65-70, which is normal with my booster pump, but output was still only like 25% of normal? Does this mean my membrane is clogged and or needs replacement? I've had it 8-9 months only so I wouldnt think so. Do I just open it up and clean it somehow? Any ideas?
 
8-9 months might need replacement.

I know they recommend filter replacement every six months - I change out mine about 9 months out as the water production drops and the sediment filter starts looking really coffee colored throughout
 
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I replaced the 10 micron sediment filter, and both of the carbon prefilters as well. The psi had dripped and I knew it was time for them to be changed, afterwards the psi went back up, but the production still sucks. I guess I need to open up the membrane and have a look.
 
There could be clogs in the membrane did you rinse your carbon filters? Sometimes carbon chunks/dust can come off and that will clog a membrane. Thing is it'll be a major PITA to get the membrane out as they tend to swell, you might very well ruin the membrane trying to remove it. Your PSI is 70, you don't have a kink in the hose anywhere?
 
I think you may be onto something with the carbon clogging it. I did run water through for 5 minutes with the flush valve open after changing the prefilters, but this was the first time that I packed the carbon in myself, so maybe I should've done more...
 
Do you ever backflush your membrane? I've found I can get much longer life out of membranes when I back flush every so often.

Sounds like the membrane is shot.
 
nope, perfect question.

http://spectrapure.com/St_flush_valve.htm#flush

FLUSH_VALVE_NEW.jpg


SpectraPure® Flush Valve Kits are placed between the membrane reject port and the flow restrictor and provide a high flow by-pass to purge concentrated brine from the membrane housing, and rapidly flush any particulates from the membrane surface. The flushing is best done just before the RO system is shut down, by opening the Flush Valve Kits valve for 15-30 seconds and then turning the feed water source off.

:)
 
Turns out I have a "fast flush" that came preinstalled with my unit. Basically a valve right before the flow restrictor that bypasses it and allows a high flow of water by the membrane rather than pushing through it. I wasn't sure if that was the same as "backflushing". Thanks everybody. I went ahead and ordered two new membranes and will see if my problem is solved by this. I've been wanting to add on a second membrane anyways, so might as well start with both being new.
 
I had a similar issue with very little RO coming out of the unit; membrane was fine; turns out the DI canister was the issue, replaced and back to good flow.
 
Interesting...I replaced it not too long ago. It's the color change type and it looks like it's got half left at least... Ppm coming out is 1-2, always used to be zero, so maybe an issue to check out. Thanks
 
FYI there's one place that sells an auto-flushing unit that backflushes 1 minute every 1 hour or something like that in case you get lazy :D

But damnit if I can't remember the name.
 
Coral reefer said:
So recently my production dropped off drastically. I replaced the 10 micron, and both carbons, pressure had been down to 35-40 psi, went up to 65-70, which is normal with my booster pump, but output was still only like 25% of normal? Does this mean my membrane is clogged and or needs replacement? I've had it 8-9 months only so I wouldnt think so. Do I just open it up and clean it somehow? Any ideas?

Like you found, clogged prefilters are the primary cause of low pressure. Sounds like your system has one sediment filter, a GAC stage, and then a carbon block, right?

Assuming you are on city water with no particular problem with heavy sediment loads or chloramines:
1. Suggest you use a 1 micron sediment filter rather than a 10 micron. The smallest pore size on a carbon block should be about the same or LARGER than the smallest pore size on the sediment filter. Otherwise you are using your carbon blocks to catch sediment.
2. You only need one carbon stage, and suggest you get rid of the gac and use a single 0.5 micron carbon block. Standard GAC used as a prefilter really has no place in the high capacity systems used in this hobby. It's a holdover when these systems were used to produce drinking water (only), and had very low capacity membranes (e.g., 9 gpd).


Russ
 
Coral reefer said:
Does this mean my membrane is clogged and or needs replacement? I've had it 8-9 months only so I wouldnt think so. Do I just open it up and clean it somehow? Any ideas?


This is probably our most frequently asked question - When do I change my filters?

A good rule of thumb is to replace your sediment filter and carbon block after six months. A more precise way to maximize the usable life of these two filters is to use a pressure gauge to identify when pressure reaching the membrane starts to decline. This is your indication one or both of the filters is beginning to clog.

Also be cognizant of the chlorine capacity of the carbon block. A good 0.5 micron carbon block for example will remove 99% of chlorine from 20,000 gallons of tap water presented at 1 gpm. Some original equipment suppliers commonly provide carbon cartridges rated at 2,000 to 6,000 gallons.

Regarding your RO membrane and DI resin, use your TDS meter to measure, record, and track the TDS (expressed in parts per million) in three places:
1. Tap water
2. After the RO but before the DI
3. After the DI.

The TDS in your tap water will likely range from about 50 ppm to upwards of 1000 parts per million (ppm). Common readings are 100 to 400 ppm. So for sake of discussion, let's say your tap water reads 400 ppm. That means that for every million parts of water, you have 400 parts of dissolved solids. How do we go about getting that TDS reading down to somewhere near zero?

If you do some experimenting with your TDS meter, you'll note that your sediment filter and carbon block filter (collectively called “prefilters”) do very little to remove dissolved solids. So with your tap water at 400 ppm, you can measure the water at the “in” port on your RO housing and you'll see it is still approximately 400 ppm.

The RO membrane is really the workhorse of the system. It removes most of the TDS, some membranes to a greater extent than others. For instance, 100 gpd Filmtec membranes have a rejection rate of 90% (i.e., they reject 90% of the dissolved solids in feed water). So the purified water coming from your 100 gpd membrane would be about 40 ppm (a 90% reduction). Filmtec 75 gpd (and below) membranes produce less purified water (aka “permeate”), but have a higher rejection rate (96 to 98%). The life span of a RO membrane is dependent upon how much water you run through it, and how dirty the water is. Membranes can function well for a year, two years, or more. To test the membrane, measure the total dissolved solids (TDS) in the water coming in to the membrane, and in the purified water (permeate) produced by the membrane. Compare that to the membrane’s advertised rejection rate, and to the same reading you recorded when the membrane was new. Membranes also commonly produce less water as their function declines.

After the RO membrane, water will flow to your DI housing. DI resin in good condition will reduce the 40 ppm water down to 0 or 1 ppm. When the DI output starts creeping up from 0 or 1 ppm, you know that your resin needs to be replaced. Sometimes people complain that their DI resin didn't last very long. Often the culprit is a malfunctioning RO membrane sending the DI resin “dirty” water. This will exhaust the resin quicker than would otherwise have been the case. Sometimes the problem is poor quality resin – remember that all resins are not created equal.

Russ
 
GreshamH said:
Do you ever backflush your membrane? I've found I can get much longer life out of membranes when I back flush every so often.

Flushing the membrane is a good thing to do.

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But there is really no "back" about it. The flush valve just provides the waste water a way to temporarily bypass the flow restrictor (in this picture the flow restrictor is inside the blue tube).

Russ
 
sfsuphysics said:
FYI there's one place that sells an auto-flushing unit that backflushes 1 minute every 1 hour or something like that in case you get lazy :D

But damnit if I can't remember the name.

Those ae called an "auto flush flow restrictor." They are powered by a transformer, and just like a standard flow restirctor, they should be matched carefully to your membrane capacity.

No need to use the big transformer designed to power a booster pump - we have a less expensive transformer for these flow restrictors, shut off soleniods, and similar accessories.

Russ
 
Looks like a simple fix of a new membrane solved it. The ppm coming through the old one really never got above 15, the new one is at 3 which is more or less what I remember the old one at. Guessing I let the carbon prefilters go too long and chlorine got it. Doesn't seem like a big difference, but I guess that it was old and clogged up and thereof was rejecting more and making less than it should have been. New membrane seems like it's about a gal per 8-9 min, so right about 150 per day with the booster pump running and new prefilters with pressure at 70 psi
 
Buckeyefs said:
GreshamH said:
Do you ever backflush your membrane? I've found I can get much longer life out of membranes when I back flush every so often.

Flushing the membrane is a good thing to do.

-IMG REMOVED-

But there is really no "back" about it. The flush valve just provides the waste water a way to temporarily bypass the flow restrictor (in this picture the flow restrictor is inside the blue tube).

Russ
Thanks...
 
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