neuro
Webmaster
@FeliciaLynn I deeply appreciate all the work you put into getting things going and set up. I don't mean to be negative.
Suggestions for an Even Better Frag Swap
- Thread starter bluprntguy
- Start date
lattehiatus
Past President
Lots of interesting points here. Congratulations, everyone participating in this thread is automatically inducted into the swap planning committee. 
There are certainly multiple philosophies concerning participation in swaps, and it's not possible to please everyone with the way things are run. Your outlook would depend in large part on your answers to various larger questions, including:
1. Are you entitled to come out with equal or better pieces than what you put in?
2. Do you believe participants would game the system to receive better picks?
3. What constitutes a "premium/elite" or otherwise desirable frag?
4. Do you have an obligation to give back more than you received from the community?
We can already see from the points raised that "better" is a subjective term. Does it mean more equitable, more accessible, more participants, or something else altogether?
A swap is a community-driven event. Ultimately a swap is only as good as its participants and the effort they put into it. As Felicia has noted, there is no bandwidth to police and regulate everything. What I would love to see are grassroots initiatives and encourage fellow swappers to be practice good etiquette. A few simple things anyone could easily do:
- Purchase a few sleeves of deli containers and provide them at cost or free to neighboring swappers (as demonstrated by @Enderturtle)
- Create and share an easy-to-read label template. Print a few extras to bring to the swap to help the label-challenged.
- Host fragging parties all over the Bay Area several weeks before the swap.
- Bring a few frags to a random meeting and announce they are available for new members to grow out and frag for the next swap.
There is no doubt in my mind BAR should be raising the bar (harhar), however rather than seek to punish offenders (who may not even be aware of the ramifications of their actions), let's give them the opportunity and tools to enable better swap etiquette. Let's keep the focus on reinforcing the positives. There may be a few bad apples, but don't let anyone spoil what is otherwise a fun and engaging event. As a community we only improve when everyone pitches in to help each other.
There are certainly multiple philosophies concerning participation in swaps, and it's not possible to please everyone with the way things are run. Your outlook would depend in large part on your answers to various larger questions, including:
1. Are you entitled to come out with equal or better pieces than what you put in?
2. Do you believe participants would game the system to receive better picks?
3. What constitutes a "premium/elite" or otherwise desirable frag?
4. Do you have an obligation to give back more than you received from the community?
We can already see from the points raised that "better" is a subjective term. Does it mean more equitable, more accessible, more participants, or something else altogether?
A swap is a community-driven event. Ultimately a swap is only as good as its participants and the effort they put into it. As Felicia has noted, there is no bandwidth to police and regulate everything. What I would love to see are grassroots initiatives and encourage fellow swappers to be practice good etiquette. A few simple things anyone could easily do:
- Purchase a few sleeves of deli containers and provide them at cost or free to neighboring swappers (as demonstrated by @Enderturtle)
- Create and share an easy-to-read label template. Print a few extras to bring to the swap to help the label-challenged.
- Host fragging parties all over the Bay Area several weeks before the swap.
- Bring a few frags to a random meeting and announce they are available for new members to grow out and frag for the next swap.
There is no doubt in my mind BAR should be raising the bar (harhar), however rather than seek to punish offenders (who may not even be aware of the ramifications of their actions), let's give them the opportunity and tools to enable better swap etiquette. Let's keep the focus on reinforcing the positives. There may be a few bad apples, but don't let anyone spoil what is otherwise a fun and engaging event. As a community we only improve when everyone pitches in to help each other.
aqua-nut
Supporting Member
Lots of interesting points here. Congratulations, everyone participating in this thread is automatically inducted into the swap planning committee.
There is no doubt in my mind BAR should be raising the bar (harhar), however rather than seek to punish offenders (who may not even be aware of the ramifications of their actions), let's give them the opportunity and tools to enable better swap etiquette. Let's keep the focus on reinforcing the positives. There may be a few bad apples, but don't let anyone spoil what is otherwise a fun and engaging event. As a community we only improve when everyone pitches in to help each other.
I hesitate to comment because of the first paragraph!
I notice no one has commented after your post Right on, David!
Even pro events do not always come off smoothly. Expecting that of an all volunteer event is a stretch. There always seems to be confusion. I see that as part of the fun.
For an open swap I think it went well. There was a glitch with the computer group calling but I thought it was dealt with in a reasonable manner. I didn't observe any dirty dealings but I wasn't really looking that hard.
I'm not sure it is possible to be both welcoming and strict with the rules.
Great job, frag swap team!
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Well I comment on those points David made, since I deleted my first post as it was apparently quite inflammatory.
1. Entitled is such a harsh word to use recently it seems. While I would say no entitlement is necessary, if you break it down to a worst case scenario of one person bringing "good" frags and everyone else bringing "common" stuff, that person might not want to contribute any more. Assuming they are looking to add to their collection as well. Now I'm sure there's a magical point where the ratio of "entitled" to "common" (and I'm using those terms simply for a lack of better ones I can think of now) does make the "entitled" happier to the point where they keep coming back. Then there's adding in those who are simply crowded with frags that give simply to give, I'm not going to name and names just to keep this thread less about any one person and more about the idea but I've seen that very recently.
2. Absolutely I believe they would game the system. Let me clarify, they will game the system within the rules. I don't think anyone will purposefully cheat to get more out of it, i.e. changing letters on a nametag or what not. But I've experience first hand a level of... lets just call it greed... that has existed in the swaps for some times. We used to have family memberships, and you got more people per dollar on the membership (I forget the exacts but it was cheaper than multiple single memberships), and we started a seeing a lot of children who were members, and their parents were just there to "help them" pick "their frags" and we did do away with that. But being a swap cruiser as long as I have I do definitely recall seeing people taking advantage of. And I've seen it in some form as well as recently as the swap that preceded this one. That said, that is an extremely small percentage of the total club, so is it a problem? I don't believe so, however if you see one person cutting in a line it could give you a sense that there is a rather larger problem in general.
3. Big 64 dollar question. And there really is no set rules for that. Do you choose a group of people to be the judges on this? Are they able to remove their personal biases about how they feel about certain corals? Any way you slice it, if the club does want to venture back in that direction picking some people to be said judges and living with that decision is probably the only sane thing to do. The BoD is too overworked to be judging corals, so a subcommittee that's in charge, and then evaluate how that went after all is said and done.
4. Obligation? Absolutely not. However the club is what its members make it. As I mentioned in some other thread, if everyone goes to a frag swap bringing the bare minimum then that is all people will come away with. But you can't force ideals onto members, otherwise that forcing simply becomes the new minimum. Ultimately, it probably boils down to "treat people how you wish to be treated" and simply apply that to whatever situation that comes about.
Love the frag-party suggestion too. Used to have quite a few members with those diamond band saws. Not sure how many there are anymore. Maybe even go so far as to use other peoples systems to hold frags, since that probably is the largest roadblock for people is they just don't have room for a frag grow out tank to let things heal up and encrust/grow over a long amount of time.
Also to tie in with "what makes a premium frag", why not experiment with reducing that "banned coral" list as well. Some people might want pulsing xenia, or kenya tree. Talking with a few members it seems going back to basics with a big weedy tank that doesn't require much effort to keep things alive is coming back. Perhaps on a trial basis allow only one coral from the "restricted" list as one of your 3 corals. New club members could be tickled pink to get some of these corals, and be able to participate as well.
I appreciate the job the BoD members are doing as they often do what seems like a thankless job, and I've experienced first hand some of those feelings as well, it's like spending a lot of time cooking a big meal then have people comment how the turkey was too dry, not enough salt, etc... really makes you want to go "F.you, cook you're own damn food from now on". Which is kind of why I suggested this kind of discussion happening a couple months before the next swap, not necessarily right after this one
That said, perhaps next swap (new BoD at that time too I think right?) but create a subcommittee of nonBoD members to actually run the whole thing. The BoD can set up the logistics of making sure the room is rented, insurance is paid, donations are available, but those big MACNA type shows do not get run by professionals, or even the people running the club there, they get done by everyone else. Many hands make light work, and all that rot
1. Entitled is such a harsh word to use recently it seems. While I would say no entitlement is necessary, if you break it down to a worst case scenario of one person bringing "good" frags and everyone else bringing "common" stuff, that person might not want to contribute any more. Assuming they are looking to add to their collection as well. Now I'm sure there's a magical point where the ratio of "entitled" to "common" (and I'm using those terms simply for a lack of better ones I can think of now) does make the "entitled" happier to the point where they keep coming back. Then there's adding in those who are simply crowded with frags that give simply to give, I'm not going to name and names just to keep this thread less about any one person and more about the idea but I've seen that very recently.
2. Absolutely I believe they would game the system. Let me clarify, they will game the system within the rules. I don't think anyone will purposefully cheat to get more out of it, i.e. changing letters on a nametag or what not. But I've experience first hand a level of... lets just call it greed... that has existed in the swaps for some times. We used to have family memberships, and you got more people per dollar on the membership (I forget the exacts but it was cheaper than multiple single memberships), and we started a seeing a lot of children who were members, and their parents were just there to "help them" pick "their frags" and we did do away with that. But being a swap cruiser as long as I have I do definitely recall seeing people taking advantage of. And I've seen it in some form as well as recently as the swap that preceded this one. That said, that is an extremely small percentage of the total club, so is it a problem? I don't believe so, however if you see one person cutting in a line it could give you a sense that there is a rather larger problem in general.
3. Big 64 dollar question. And there really is no set rules for that. Do you choose a group of people to be the judges on this? Are they able to remove their personal biases about how they feel about certain corals? Any way you slice it, if the club does want to venture back in that direction picking some people to be said judges and living with that decision is probably the only sane thing to do. The BoD is too overworked to be judging corals, so a subcommittee that's in charge, and then evaluate how that went after all is said and done.
4. Obligation? Absolutely not. However the club is what its members make it. As I mentioned in some other thread, if everyone goes to a frag swap bringing the bare minimum then that is all people will come away with. But you can't force ideals onto members, otherwise that forcing simply becomes the new minimum. Ultimately, it probably boils down to "treat people how you wish to be treated" and simply apply that to whatever situation that comes about.
Love the frag-party suggestion too. Used to have quite a few members with those diamond band saws. Not sure how many there are anymore. Maybe even go so far as to use other peoples systems to hold frags, since that probably is the largest roadblock for people is they just don't have room for a frag grow out tank to let things heal up and encrust/grow over a long amount of time.
Also to tie in with "what makes a premium frag", why not experiment with reducing that "banned coral" list as well. Some people might want pulsing xenia, or kenya tree. Talking with a few members it seems going back to basics with a big weedy tank that doesn't require much effort to keep things alive is coming back. Perhaps on a trial basis allow only one coral from the "restricted" list as one of your 3 corals. New club members could be tickled pink to get some of these corals, and be able to participate as well.
I appreciate the job the BoD members are doing as they often do what seems like a thankless job, and I've experienced first hand some of those feelings as well, it's like spending a lot of time cooking a big meal then have people comment how the turkey was too dry, not enough salt, etc... really makes you want to go "F.you, cook you're own damn food from now on". Which is kind of why I suggested this kind of discussion happening a couple months before the next swap, not necessarily right after this one
That said, perhaps next swap (new BoD at that time too I think right?) but create a subcommittee of nonBoD members to actually run the whole thing. The BoD can set up the logistics of making sure the room is rented, insurance is paid, donations are available, but those big MACNA type shows do not get run by professionals, or even the people running the club there, they get done by everyone else. Many hands make light work, and all that rot
Last edited:
yellojello
Guest
I think Felicia gave a good introduction to the swap:
"This event is intended to encourage the propagation, sharing, and 'backing up' of corals throughout the reefing community. The frag swap is a great way to promote the spirit of generosity in support of the hobby and all its participants. The swap is open to everyone. Meet and hang out with your fellow hobbyists. Share and enjoy the diversity of corals being successfully grown by your fellow reefers. Learn more about how to care for the corals you pick and the corals you currently have."
I agree that the swap is more about giving and educating. The more generous the members are, the more generous future members will become.
But I think the swap isn't much about trading corals, especially getting better ones, but more about education and attracting more reefers to join BAR. I came later at 12:30, so I'm not sure if there was anything else going on before hand. There wasn't much promotion or materials that I saw, other than the t-shirts and some fliers. I think maybe a small intro slide show before the swap would be helpful. What BAR is about, events, DBTC, learning good skills, etc...
Another idea would be "premium" frag donations from sponsors or members not for sale or auctioned, but to be obtained only by joining BAR at the event, signing up on the website, and then teaching the new member to use DBTC and post the "premium" frag on there. The coral sponsor (if member) would put the coral on DBTC before the day of. We would have to find a way to see who gets the coral. Of course, this would not apply to BAR-member only swaps.
It would be nice to have some sort of meet-and-greet. But I understand that there is limited time.
I thought the silent auction went well. I believe it ended a few minutes after the swap ended. If we were to announce the last bids and ask for more at the end, then it wouldn't really be a silent auction. Instead, we could make each silent auction item end 1-2 minutes after another to give people more time to bid. This way, the payment process doesn't get all clogged up as well. Again, time permitting. Also add a table or two to space out each item apart so there is less crowding.
A slideshow or photo album of member's tanks and equipment would be cool, even though all the info is on the forums.
I'm primarily on R2R and BAR, so I'm not sure how other local reef clubs are, but the BAR team seems to be doing a great job.
"This event is intended to encourage the propagation, sharing, and 'backing up' of corals throughout the reefing community. The frag swap is a great way to promote the spirit of generosity in support of the hobby and all its participants. The swap is open to everyone. Meet and hang out with your fellow hobbyists. Share and enjoy the diversity of corals being successfully grown by your fellow reefers. Learn more about how to care for the corals you pick and the corals you currently have."
I agree that the swap is more about giving and educating. The more generous the members are, the more generous future members will become.
But I think the swap isn't much about trading corals, especially getting better ones, but more about education and attracting more reefers to join BAR. I came later at 12:30, so I'm not sure if there was anything else going on before hand. There wasn't much promotion or materials that I saw, other than the t-shirts and some fliers. I think maybe a small intro slide show before the swap would be helpful. What BAR is about, events, DBTC, learning good skills, etc...
Another idea would be "premium" frag donations from sponsors or members not for sale or auctioned, but to be obtained only by joining BAR at the event, signing up on the website, and then teaching the new member to use DBTC and post the "premium" frag on there. The coral sponsor (if member) would put the coral on DBTC before the day of. We would have to find a way to see who gets the coral. Of course, this would not apply to BAR-member only swaps.
It would be nice to have some sort of meet-and-greet. But I understand that there is limited time.
I thought the silent auction went well. I believe it ended a few minutes after the swap ended. If we were to announce the last bids and ask for more at the end, then it wouldn't really be a silent auction. Instead, we could make each silent auction item end 1-2 minutes after another to give people more time to bid. This way, the payment process doesn't get all clogged up as well. Again, time permitting. Also add a table or two to space out each item apart so there is less crowding.
A slideshow or photo album of member's tanks and equipment would be cool, even though all the info is on the forums.
I'm primarily on R2R and BAR, so I'm not sure how other local reef clubs are, but the BAR team seems to be doing a great job.
bluprntguy
Guest
First off, let me say that I appreciate the hard work of all the volunteers that put together the frag swap. I also appreciate the time and energy that the BOD puts into keeping the group running and putting on all the events through the year. I don't think that there is a person in the club that doesn't feel the same way. It's been expressed by many members, on numerous threads including this one, but it probably can't really be said enough. The swap was a fun event and I think that everyone involved did an amazing job.
I've tried a number of really wordy responses for the rest of what's been discussed, but I think it boils down to this: We really should be able to have an honest, respectful discussion and people should be able to share their opinions - good, bad, and indifferent.
I created this thread because other members wanted to have a discussion and were commenting in other threads. I tried to spin this thread towards the positive.
You can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve events. BOD has mentioned on more than one occasion that they want more member involvement. You can't expect members to be involved in the club if their opinions are dismissed or they don't feel comfortable sharing their opinions here. Those are the members that don't come back or don't renew their memberships.
Finally, I'm not the only one that can create a thread! There is a "Kudos" section under "Community Discussion" where you can start a thread and thank the "frag swap team" for hosting a great event. I think the "What went GREAT at the Frag Swap?" thread or a just a "Thank You" thread would be a great idea.
I've tried a number of really wordy responses for the rest of what's been discussed, but I think it boils down to this: We really should be able to have an honest, respectful discussion and people should be able to share their opinions - good, bad, and indifferent.
I created this thread because other members wanted to have a discussion and were commenting in other threads. I tried to spin this thread towards the positive.
You can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to improve events. BOD has mentioned on more than one occasion that they want more member involvement. You can't expect members to be involved in the club if their opinions are dismissed or they don't feel comfortable sharing their opinions here. Those are the members that don't come back or don't renew their memberships.
Finally, I'm not the only one that can create a thread! There is a "Kudos" section under "Community Discussion" where you can start a thread and thank the "frag swap team" for hosting a great event. I think the "What went GREAT at the Frag Swap?" thread or a just a "Thank You" thread would be a great idea.
HiFidelity
Guest
I'll go ahead and apologize for unintentionally instigating this discussion (didn't think any harm would come of it) and on my part I wasn't trying to get into any crazy debate or offend anyone by being outspoken, I merely wanted to point out some very (what looked to me like) basic issues which I feel would have taken no additional time or energy out of any one person's already tight BAR schedule. If it matters at all I'll point out that I was simply asking to improve labeling, lack of instructions and overall better organization, wasn't trying to re-invent the wheel or complain in anyway about what I brought home. By no means did I try to intentionally insinuate or accuse anyone of doing a bad job and was prepared to take on any changes or "improvements" upon myself the next time I volunteer to help out. Thanks to everyone who makes our events possible and really appreciate your efforts and time, truly.
As it appears that ultimately the outcome of this discussion veered beyond where I assumed it would go so I'm going to carry on in other topics & steer clear of this one, after all I don't feel like I'm in any position to argue with anyone or even disagree on any points of view since the truth is, I'm not in the BOD and I don't have the ability to volunteer as often as I'd like to. At the end of the day maintaining a healthy/friendly relationship with other BAR members is more important to me than one single topic of discussion on our forums so I'll remain focused on that.
Thanks & once again, apologies...
As it appears that ultimately the outcome of this discussion veered beyond where I assumed it would go so I'm going to carry on in other topics & steer clear of this one, after all I don't feel like I'm in any position to argue with anyone or even disagree on any points of view since the truth is, I'm not in the BOD and I don't have the ability to volunteer as often as I'd like to. At the end of the day maintaining a healthy/friendly relationship with other BAR members is more important to me than one single topic of discussion on our forums so I'll remain focused on that.
Thanks & once again, apologies...
reggaedrummin
Guest
I'll offer my $.02 on the topic though I've not attended a BAR swap. My experience with swaps is limited to other clubs out of state and what I've heard from other local reefers.
My perception of frag swaps so far it's not good good. They seem to me a sort of "black Friday"sale, where you can sell your soul, risk bodily harm, and if you're lucky, score some sweet schwag.
Like it or not, I'm certain that there are reefers who attend with the intent of swapping garbage for rare pieces. They have no humility in taking advantage of the generous nature of the folks providing quality frags and in fact, I think they attend intentionally seeking that. It's that element of the swap that keeps me from attending.
There has been mention of the elitist mentality that can brew amongst active, quality contributors, but truth told, I think they are just that. In this hobby I think for every skilled reefer who was both the colonies worthy of fragging, and the tools, skills, and experience to frag said colonies, there are tens of others who do not.
That said, a swap as I first understood it, should be an opportunity for reefers to come together, share knowledge, diversify their collection, encourage propagation, and be rewarded for their successes. In keeping with that spirit I think that the swap should encourage like for like swaps as often as possible and allow for reefers to handle upgrades, freebies, and charity outside the realm of the swap entirely. I think that if reefers attend expecting to get only what they put in, they will come with a better attitude and a genuine interest in networking.
I realize this walks the line of driving attendance but I think that's where key speakers, raffles and give-aways, and quality reputation is so important. Bottom line is people will only attend if they expect to get more than they arrived with, I propose that what they "get" is education, networking, and an opportunity to win something cool, versus coral frags they cannot afford to purchase.
If it were my swap, I'd require attendees to register in advance, assign groups based on the frags donated by the attendees, and encourage the elitist mentality to a healthy extent. If someone wants coral "c" but only has a tank full of corals "a" & "b", they have a few options. They can purchase it, network with people who already have it and work out a direct trade, or receive it as charity from a donor who finds them to be a worthy recipient. Conversely if you have nice corals and want to help foster new reefers, dbtc, donation to raffles/door prizes, and other non-swap events might be a better channel for these exchanges.
I think the further you can get from a swap being a "free-for-all", the more successful they will be. I'd tighten the reigns on the rules and focus more towards the content of the meeting and less towards the swap itself. The swap can still be a venue for accomplished reefers to hand out freebies and for new reefers to get their hands on prize pieces but that should all be arranged in advance not as a function of the swap itself.
My perception of frag swaps so far it's not good good. They seem to me a sort of "black Friday"sale, where you can sell your soul, risk bodily harm, and if you're lucky, score some sweet schwag.
Like it or not, I'm certain that there are reefers who attend with the intent of swapping garbage for rare pieces. They have no humility in taking advantage of the generous nature of the folks providing quality frags and in fact, I think they attend intentionally seeking that. It's that element of the swap that keeps me from attending.
There has been mention of the elitist mentality that can brew amongst active, quality contributors, but truth told, I think they are just that. In this hobby I think for every skilled reefer who was both the colonies worthy of fragging, and the tools, skills, and experience to frag said colonies, there are tens of others who do not.
That said, a swap as I first understood it, should be an opportunity for reefers to come together, share knowledge, diversify their collection, encourage propagation, and be rewarded for their successes. In keeping with that spirit I think that the swap should encourage like for like swaps as often as possible and allow for reefers to handle upgrades, freebies, and charity outside the realm of the swap entirely. I think that if reefers attend expecting to get only what they put in, they will come with a better attitude and a genuine interest in networking.
I realize this walks the line of driving attendance but I think that's where key speakers, raffles and give-aways, and quality reputation is so important. Bottom line is people will only attend if they expect to get more than they arrived with, I propose that what they "get" is education, networking, and an opportunity to win something cool, versus coral frags they cannot afford to purchase.
If it were my swap, I'd require attendees to register in advance, assign groups based on the frags donated by the attendees, and encourage the elitist mentality to a healthy extent. If someone wants coral "c" but only has a tank full of corals "a" & "b", they have a few options. They can purchase it, network with people who already have it and work out a direct trade, or receive it as charity from a donor who finds them to be a worthy recipient. Conversely if you have nice corals and want to help foster new reefers, dbtc, donation to raffles/door prizes, and other non-swap events might be a better channel for these exchanges.
I think the further you can get from a swap being a "free-for-all", the more successful they will be. I'd tighten the reigns on the rules and focus more towards the content of the meeting and less towards the swap itself. The swap can still be a venue for accomplished reefers to hand out freebies and for new reefers to get their hands on prize pieces but that should all be arranged in advance not as a function of the swap itself.
Vincerama2
Supporting Member
An Experienced Reefer Only frag table.
===========================
Put "exotics" or "requires experience" frags on a separate table. You need a special name tag to pick from that table and your experience has to be backed up or somehow vetted by the club.
If one of the purposes of the frag swap is to circulate frags for "backup" or propogation, then it hardly makes sense to let newbies walk off with hard to care for frags that will instantly die in their tanks.
Let aquarists EARN the hard frags by showing they can care for hard frags, and this will help ensure that the hard to care for frags aren't just sent to their doom in a newbie tank. The newbie can show they are good aquarists with easier frags and work their way to the harder frags at the NEXT swap.
Newbies table.
===========
Conversely, there are frags that are extra easy to care for and this include the RESTRICTED CORALS! Xenia (which I miss), GSP, toadstools, other leathers, zoos, mushrooms.
You have to earn your way up to the general frag tables by showing that you can take care of the easy corals. Newbies will be excited to get ANY of the so called "restricted, persona non grata" corals. Let them pick only from this table so they can get starter frags and learn to raise corals with easy to raise corals.
Container Standardization. No deviation.
=============================
Go to Smart and Final, choose two or three sized containers. Declare that these are the ONLY CONTAINERS ALLOWED. The club can buy some extras. If people show up with the wrong containers, they must transfer the frags to the provided containers, at the cost of 25 cents per container (to discourage wrong containers).
Label Standardization
================
We sort of had this once. Someone provided a Word Template that you could print out to a certain Avery Label size. It had standard lines : Coral name, light requirements, water, salinity, contributor or whatever.
Pre-print labels and hand them out throughout the year at meetings. Just bring them along so we all use them.
Mislabelled frag containers, or non-standard labels must be replaced at the Frag Swap for 5 cents a label, done on the spot, before handing them into the frag table volunteers.
Browsing
=======
meh, who cares if people browse? If someone gets a nicer coral than you, so what? If we go by the experienced/newbie tables idea then the hard and presumably nicer corals will be there anyway. Newbies can't snatch them.
Be happy with your frag. In theory, they will come back again once the swapper has grown them out a bit.
Log books, coral ID.
==============
Not exactly specific to the Frag Swap, but how's this for an idea. Along with the standardized label, we attach a coral ID to frags, to track mother colonies. We can use ORIGINAL contributers initials (if unique) and a number. And we can create a database (yes, work).
So for instance, if I bring my infamous green ricordia to a swap, I'll give it a coral ID of VL001. Everytime I bring it, I'll give it the same code. Anyone who brings a frag of that coral give it the same ID.
So how do we keep track? Since the labels are standardized, we can encourage the idea of keeping a log book for the tank. Whatever information is on the label, you write into your log book, including the ID number. So when you bring a frag of it, you can use the same ID.
Coral ID database
============
Along those lines, we have a database. Take a pic of the coral, attach the ID to it. I know, it's a monstrous undertaking, but even if only SOME people participate, we can then track the frags' mother colonies and see how well they propogate. Like if eventually many swaps/years in the future, we get back a lot of VL001 corals, we'll know they are related and that propogation is working for them. Anyone picking up a frag could look at the database, enter the ID and see notes from other owners of the same frag family.
Just an idea anyway.
===========================
Put "exotics" or "requires experience" frags on a separate table. You need a special name tag to pick from that table and your experience has to be backed up or somehow vetted by the club.
If one of the purposes of the frag swap is to circulate frags for "backup" or propogation, then it hardly makes sense to let newbies walk off with hard to care for frags that will instantly die in their tanks.
Let aquarists EARN the hard frags by showing they can care for hard frags, and this will help ensure that the hard to care for frags aren't just sent to their doom in a newbie tank. The newbie can show they are good aquarists with easier frags and work their way to the harder frags at the NEXT swap.
Newbies table.
===========
Conversely, there are frags that are extra easy to care for and this include the RESTRICTED CORALS! Xenia (which I miss), GSP, toadstools, other leathers, zoos, mushrooms.
You have to earn your way up to the general frag tables by showing that you can take care of the easy corals. Newbies will be excited to get ANY of the so called "restricted, persona non grata" corals. Let them pick only from this table so they can get starter frags and learn to raise corals with easy to raise corals.
Container Standardization. No deviation.
=============================
Go to Smart and Final, choose two or three sized containers. Declare that these are the ONLY CONTAINERS ALLOWED. The club can buy some extras. If people show up with the wrong containers, they must transfer the frags to the provided containers, at the cost of 25 cents per container (to discourage wrong containers).
Label Standardization
================
We sort of had this once. Someone provided a Word Template that you could print out to a certain Avery Label size. It had standard lines : Coral name, light requirements, water, salinity, contributor or whatever.
Pre-print labels and hand them out throughout the year at meetings. Just bring them along so we all use them.
Mislabelled frag containers, or non-standard labels must be replaced at the Frag Swap for 5 cents a label, done on the spot, before handing them into the frag table volunteers.
Browsing
=======
meh, who cares if people browse? If someone gets a nicer coral than you, so what? If we go by the experienced/newbie tables idea then the hard and presumably nicer corals will be there anyway. Newbies can't snatch them.
Be happy with your frag. In theory, they will come back again once the swapper has grown them out a bit.
Log books, coral ID.
==============
Not exactly specific to the Frag Swap, but how's this for an idea. Along with the standardized label, we attach a coral ID to frags, to track mother colonies. We can use ORIGINAL contributers initials (if unique) and a number. And we can create a database (yes, work).
So for instance, if I bring my infamous green ricordia to a swap, I'll give it a coral ID of VL001. Everytime I bring it, I'll give it the same code. Anyone who brings a frag of that coral give it the same ID.
So how do we keep track? Since the labels are standardized, we can encourage the idea of keeping a log book for the tank. Whatever information is on the label, you write into your log book, including the ID number. So when you bring a frag of it, you can use the same ID.
Coral ID database
============
Along those lines, we have a database. Take a pic of the coral, attach the ID to it. I know, it's a monstrous undertaking, but even if only SOME people participate, we can then track the frags' mother colonies and see how well they propogate. Like if eventually many swaps/years in the future, we get back a lot of VL001 corals, we'll know they are related and that propogation is working for them. Anyone picking up a frag could look at the database, enter the ID and see notes from other owners of the same frag family.
Just an idea anyway.
Vincerama2
Supporting Member
NOTE: My suggestions above are...suggestions for discussion of their merit.
I understand that it takes a lot of work to run a swap. I didn't even go to the last one, but my main tank has some coral eaters in it that i'm trying to identify before sacrificing any frags to them.
However, I like to kick out ideas that I think would be neat and/or useful, I'm not saying "Hey, volunteers, go do this", I'm saying "Hey, this is what I think would work, what do you think".
And I wrote it all before reading Felicia's post and I don't want her (and others) to think I'm dictating any extra work for others to do. I'm just tossing ideas out there for discussion!
I understand that it takes a lot of work to run a swap. I didn't even go to the last one, but my main tank has some coral eaters in it that i'm trying to identify before sacrificing any frags to them.
However, I like to kick out ideas that I think would be neat and/or useful, I'm not saying "Hey, volunteers, go do this", I'm saying "Hey, this is what I think would work, what do you think".
And I wrote it all before reading Felicia's post and I don't want her (and others) to think I'm dictating any extra work for others to do. I'm just tossing ideas out there for discussion!
Vincerama2
Supporting Member
BTW, if you guys like the "standardized containers and label", then I'll volunteer to check them out at Smart and Final and to come up with a Word Template for the labels. (See, I'm useful!)
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
25 cents per container? Don't forget the lid too!
reggaedrummin
Guest
When is the next BAR gathering?
lattehiatus
Past President
Philip, your post resonated strongly with me. I apologize for taking so long to reply.
At the end of the day, BAR is entirely built on the work of volunteers who put in their time and energy. As a part of the web team, you are probably more aware of that than most people.
Discussion is most certainly welcome and necessary - BAR was built on the backs of those who saw room for improvement and strive for more. However, the important aspect is that change only occurs when you are involved with the execution. I would like all of us to frame any critique in the context that any events or improvements put into the club was done with by someone who freely and generously contributed time and effort. It would be very different altogether if club volunteers received any compensation beyond the gratitude of BAR club members.
If you want to make things better, the reality of the situation is that it is not enough to make suggestions - all that means is someone else has to do it. If you have an idea, think of how you could lead the charge to put it into practice. You don't need to do it all by yourself - ask others to help (BAR members are notoriously helpful). Ultimately we each have to take ownership of the changes we want to see. In a world where everyone pitches in to BAR commensurate with how much she/he has received from the club, BAR would be an unstoppable force.
Darcy Vasudev
Guest
I have a suggestion regarding beginner corals. I feel that maybe some xenia should be removed from the beginner list. I once got an awesome Red Sea pompom xenia which I loved. Eventually, as with many xenia colonies, it crashed. I would like to see people bringing in xenia, as it can be tricky to get it started (sometimes the frags just melt away) and the colonies do have a tendency to crash, so even though it's "beginner" it would be nice to have access to it from time to time in our softie/mixed tanks.
Geneva
Guest
Hi Darcy! Glad you are now a member! I am always pruning back my xenia and GSP so would be happy to give you some anytime! I also enjoy the movement, color, and pulsing of the xenia. I haven't tried to attach cuttings to a frag plug but @Nav came over once and took some and I think threaded it onto a plug....(Nav, did it survive?!) I can definitely try doing that before giving you some! It is very slimy! P.S. my ricordea from you at the swap is still doing great and I love it!!