Kessil

Co2 scrubber folks

Rostato said:
Because they are "normally closed" they need to be energized for long periods of time. Sometimes they may never turn off. Most of them out there are mechanical relays made of metal. That constant flow of electricity makes them heat up significantly.

I decided not to go with a solenoid because I could not find a "normally open" one. There are probably ways to make it work, but I had to stop myself from continuing further down the rabbit hole, and work my way back out of it.
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You have it backwards. Things normally open or normally closed is the state it’s in when it is de-energized. So normally closed would be closed when the power is off and open when power is applied. Normally open is the opposite.
 
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RandyC said:
You have it backwards. Things normally open or normally closed is the state it’s in when it is de-energized. So normally closed would be closed when the power is off and open when power is applied.
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Yes, and then having to keep it powered to stay open and use the co2 scrubber means it is constantly getting power sent to the solenoid. Which is the risk
 
max_nano said:
Yes, and then having to keep it powered to stay open and use the co2 scrubber means it is constantly getting power sent to the solenoid. Which is the risk
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silly me, I didn’t have my head on this morning. Hahaha, mind is busy with kindergarten work.
 
RandyC said:
You have it backwards. Things normally open or normally closed is the state it’s in when it is de-energized. So normally closed would be closed when the power is off and open when power is applied. Normally open is the opposite.
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That's exactly what I said...The solenoids out there are normally closed.....
 
Rostato said:
That's exactly what I said...The solenoids out there are normally closed.....
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That is preferred-- I have mine using a Y connection - the solenoid, when de-energized, is closed, so the air intake is from my scrubber. When energized, it's open, so the air is coming from the leat resistance, or the solenoid. Sure, there maybe some pull from the scrubber, but more fresh air is fed. Using Apex to control the outlet with pH driving the on/off.
 
RandyC said:
You have it backwards. Things normally open or normally closed is the state it’s in when it is de-energized. So normally closed would be closed when the power is off and open when power is applied. Normally open is the opposite.
Click to expand...
Solniod are in off state when no power supply present. You supply power and turn on the valve. Durong the om state there is heat dissipation, in co2 scrubber case, you are mostly in an on state so heat will be much worst than in ATO case ad an example..
 
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So has anyone done any testing to see how long the solenoid stays open vs. closed? A quick look on Amazon found plenty of normally open solenoids, some may require a few more pieces to get to the proper size you want.

This one popped up, I mean it's Amazon so take it with a grain of salt and all that rot.

1/2" Brass Electric Solenoid Valve 110V AC NBR Seal N.O. (Air, Gas,Fuel.): Industrial Solenoid Valves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

1/2" Brass Electric Solenoid Valve 110V AC NBR Seal N.O. (Air, Gas,Fuel.): Industrial Solenoid Valves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com
That said even with a normally closed one if you used an Apex I'm sure you could throw in some programming that doesn't allow it stay on too long to give it a cool down time.
 
ofzakaria said:
Oh man these things heat bog time. Cause they are supplied with 5v and they are in on state there is heat dissipation and generation..
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I've been in planted tanks and have used solenoids on regulators for CO2 injection for 2 decades. Not once have I worried about a solenoid getting too hot if you're using the correct one for the task. The one i used for my last regulator build uses 0.37 watts. It barely gets warm, let alone hot and it was on (open) 24/7. The 110v Burkertt models I've used get quite a bit hotter but nowhere near enough to set fire to anything.

There are larger models available that should use the same amount of wattage or close to. Link to 1/8" NPT 0.37 watt model used for planted tanks.

CO2 Regulator Parts | CO2 For Planted Tanks And Home Brewing. CO2 Regulator Solenoid with 15490-5 manifold (12V)

www.diyco2regulator.com
 
sfsuphysics said:
So has anyone done any testing to see how long the solenoid stays open vs. closed? A quick look on Amazon found plenty of normally open solenoids, some may require a few more pieces to get to the proper size you want.

This one popped up, I mean it's Amazon so take it with a grain of salt and all that rot.

1/2" Brass Electric Solenoid Valve 110V AC NBR Seal N.O. (Air, Gas,Fuel.): Industrial Solenoid Valves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

1/2" Brass Electric Solenoid Valve 110V AC NBR Seal N.O. (Air, Gas,Fuel.): Industrial Solenoid Valves: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com
That said even with a normally closed one if you used an Apex I'm sure you could throw in some programming that doesn't allow it stay on too long to give it a cool down time.
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The way i see it, you would want to run a co2 scrubber because your ph is bad. Which means, you will likely have the solniod on for majority of time, otherwise I woild question why you need a co2 scrubber.
I ised solniod on my ATO for couple of years and I avraged changing it every 6 months.
I tried multiple ones, the neptune one and 2 diffrent stand alone valves I got off amazon. All had same issues and similar performance snd all heat up when they are in on state.
 
Da_Neefer said:
I've been in planted tanks and have used solenoids on regulators for CO2 injection for 2 decades. Not once have I worried about a solenoid getting too hot if you're using the correct one for the task. The one i used for my last regulator build uses 0.37 watts. It barely gets warm, let alone hot and it was on (open) 24/7. The 110v Burkertt models I've used get quite a bit hotter but nowhere near enough to set fire to anything.

There are larger models available that should use the same amount of wattage or close to. Link to 1/8" NPT 0.37 watt model used for planted tanks.

CO2 Regulator Parts | CO2 For Planted Tanks And Home Brewing. CO2 Regulator Solenoid with 15490-5 manifold (12V)

www.diyco2regulator.com
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Not sure what using it correctly mean..what is the usage of solenoid other than turn it on (supply voltage) when u need it on and turning it off when u need it off..
 
ofzakaria said:
Not sure what using it correctly mean..what is the usage of solenoid other than turn it on (supply voltage) when u need it on and turning it off when u need it off..
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By correct one, I mean sized appropriately and capable of continuous duty. IE being on for up to 24/7.
 
Da_Neefer said:
By correct one, I mean sized appropriately and capable of continuous duty. IE being on for up to 24/7.
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Got your point.
I do not thinl size matter here. The medium is air so any size is ok.
The reliability of the valve i agree but at expense of cost
For the record most of my earlier talk is regarding the cheap small solniod. For co2 scrubber it's not worth going to high end ones.
There are good and reliable solniods like the one used for CArx co2 line. But these are expensive.
Actually even on the dastaco, they rexommend changing that solniod every 18 to 24 months and that thing is a beast and high duty.
As you can see, you start stacking cost if you are trying to fix this one angel in the co2 scrubber setup..
Hence, I like the all in one, no solniod setup this product has..
 
ofzakaria said:
Got your point.
For the record most of my earlier talk is regarding the cheap small solniod. For co2 scrubber it's not worth going to high end ones.
There are good and reliable solniods like the one used for CArx co2 line. But these are expensive.
Actually even on the dastaco, they rexommend changing that solniod every 18 to 24 months and that thing is a beast and high duty.
As you can see, you start stacking cost if you are trying to fix this one angel in the co2 scrubber setup..
Hence, I lole the all in one, no solniod setup this product has..
Click to expand...

I agree, it's better to keep it as simple as possible and as few as parts as possible. I can't understand why such an expensive Calcium reactor would suggest that you change the solenoid at all. It should be the same one used on most planted tank regulators and they last for years and years. Check it every so often for failure like any other piece of equipment we use. Debris preventing full valve closure or water back siphoning into them is the most common source of failure that I've personally seen.
 
Da_Neefer said:
I agree, it's better to keep it as simple as possible and as few as parts as possible. I can't understand why such an expensive Calcium reactor would suggest that you change the solenoid at all. It should be the same one used on most planted tank regulators and they last for years and years. Check it every so often for failure like any other piece of equipment we use. Debris preventing full valve closure or water back siphoning into them is the most common source of failure that I've personally seen.
Click to expand...
I thinl because all solniods have a life time.
With CArx, unless you mantain the valve, open and clean it, it will break.
Ppl woild not do it necessarily, but its the same as the oh prob where any reputable vendor will recommend changing the pr9b every certain period, some ppl do some do not. All depend on the tunction and criticality of the device accuracy..
In CArx case, a faulty solniod can be a catastrophic event if you did not notice it for couppe days.
Luckily the dastaco has an alarm it give you if solniod is not working or co2 is empty..
 
I use this solenoid the dirty (regular) air line. When it's off (closed) the air goes through the CO2 scrubber. When it's energized (open), most of the air goes through the regular air line due to less resistance. Solenoid is usually off for me set up this way.

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
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Quick update on this.
I settled with the company on providing an option for media bypass through a connector on the reactor controller.
The idea is:
- Reactor control and mantain humidity of the media as its originally designed
- a connector that can connect to any controller or a timer to wall socket is responsible for enabling bypass when user want to (say when ph is high)

I worked with them to make sure the control function is controller independent to give the user flexibility.

Now we deciding the connector type for the bypass option.
I was thinking a simple audio jack. What do you all think? Any preference?
 
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