got ethical husbandry?

Dbtc thoughts, comments and issues

RandyC said:
None of those points have any interest to me at all to start a new DBTC. I used to start a DBTC in hopes to spread the coral and bank a coral. Most people here have used it to get free coral. Almost all chains don’t last past a single level. I don’t even participate in DBTCs anymore because I’ve seen that they eventually die because only a few members pass on frags after getting them.

If you’re going to encourage anything, it’s not the originator that needs to be incentivized, there are plenty of those types of members here to do that, it’s the continuation/propagation of the coral that is the largest problem and finding a way to get rid of the “freeloaders.”
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Maybe there should be some sort of rule that you can only hold so many DBTC corals before you need to pass some on before you get more. That way it’ll stop people from just collecting DBTC and not passing any on. For example (just made up number), I can get 3 DBTC and grow them out, if I pass one on in the chain, only then am I able to get another one. That way only people successfully passing on coral will continue to get coral. If they’re just doing it to get free coral, at least they’ll only get away with a maximum amount instead of continuously collecting and never passing on.

I’ll admit I’m definitely part of the problem in the sense that I never really started any DBTC because I see a lot of chains that just die off because people kept the coral and never passed anything on. I’ve never sold coral, only gave it to other members who I trust believe in spreading the coral once they grow it out and want to give back to the club. If there was changes made to the current program where we limit freeloaders, myself and I think many other people would be interested in adding to DBTC. Currently, in theory it’s great, but unfortunately doesn’t play out as it should. Seeing those numbers @Srt4eric posted is kinda sad
 
I think generally rules oriented around penalizing undesirable behavior are less likely to increase engagement with a product (DBTC) than finding ways to incentivize usage.

If there's benefits to people to do something, people will do it. Just need to figure out what those are, and make them compelling.

Also knowing what the goal is supposed to be would help to. Eg is the goal actually DBTC gets more barcode users, or is it getting more chains longer, or is it more comraderie on frags of whatever source being given out, or ...?
 
richiev said:
I think generally rules oriented around penalizing undesirable behavior are less likely to increase engagement with a product (DBTC) than finding ways to incentivize usage.

If there's benefits to people to do something, people will do it. Just need to figure out what those are, and make them compelling.

Also knowing what the goal is supposed to be would help to. Eg is the goal actually DBTC gets more barcode users, or is it getting more chains longer, or is it more comraderie on frags of whatever source being given out, or ...?
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Maybe a tag saying contributor or something, like a badage you can earn which puts you up front of the dbtc request que.

Or prehaps a award to those who complete the most chains in a time frame such as a free bonus ticket at a future swap. Heck a bar teeshirt, hoodie, or somthing similar. Overall I think the talks here on the subject is very postive and a sign that as a club the general desire is to improve things.

I wouldn't be against a limit to number of dbtc corals one can keep, until they give something back, if there is a system in place that allows you to increase the limit.

I personally haven't completed the chain yet, but I have offered a few of my own tk dbtc. Everything awesome and really desireable tends to grow much slower. So with time I hope to be able to complete some of these.

If you have 10 dbtc corals never even contributed anything at all, and have requested 20 others- that would indicate a possible freeloader pattern. I often think simple methods works best like being a member for x time before you can borrow club equipment. Same can also work for dbtc to start with your allowed x number until you do x,y, or z.

We should also consider giving acheivement awards out to members in various areas. Maybe once a year at a specific frag swap or in person event. Shows people that are doing the right things they are appreciated.
 
richiev said:
I think generally rules oriented around penalizing undesirable behavior are less likely to increase engagement with a product (DBTC) than finding ways to incentivize usage.

If there's benefits to people to do something, people will do it. Just need to figure out what those are, and make them compelling.

Also knowing what the goal is supposed to be would help too. Eg is the goal actually DBTC gets more barcode users, or is it getting more chains longer, or is it more comraderie on frags of whatever source being given out, or ...?
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Sharing and backing up captively propagated corals.
 
Coral reefer said:
Sharing and backing up captively propagated corals.
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I'm curious if full tank crashes were more common back when dbtc was starting up?

Not intending to imply they don't still happen. It just seems they don't apear to be very common presently gauging by members here reporting or seeking advice about major issues. I also envision that many potential crashes are avoided by the swift and sound advice given by the more experienced members here.

In your general prospective over the years do you think the hobby has evolved for the better in terms of education and understanding the potential issues that lead to tank crashes?
 
FWIW the goal of reeflines was to promote coral that wasn't wild harvested; things at least one step away from the ocean. The lineage part was just an indirect byproduct from that. Ideally being to say "here's a coral that's 20 steps removed from the ocean, and here's what the situation was in tanks it did well in which will help you that care of yours".

I think if the goal is increase in captive corals and reduction of wild, the incentive and process potentially could be more inclusive too. Eg freebies offered are as important as chains. Technically sold corals too, since that's aligned, though sold doesn't really need other incentives.

I mention that because if we're going to find ways to incentivize more captive corals distribution overall, maybe there's other things to include than the DBTC setup. DBTC being a variation of that, but one rooted less in captive coral distribution and more in a single person having ownership and control of a chain of coral descendants. Similarly if the goal is overall distribution, then creating more freebies or new chains is worth as much as "completing a chain".

I'd personally love to rebuild something around all this, I just don't have the free cycles to do so. I'd also probably push for it to go a different way than DBTC, due to personal beliefs.

So to avoid just throwing out vague ideas, a very simple one would be a spreadsheet that people put entries in when they've given out frags to people in the club (DBTC or otherwise). Top contributors get extra frag swap priority. Have people self police the list. Requires zero dev work.
 
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MichaelB said:
I'm curious if full tank crashes were more common back when dbtc was starting up?

Not intending to imply they don't still happen. It just seems they don't apear to be very common presently gauging by members here reporting or seeking advice about major issues. I also envision that many potential crashes are avoided by the swift and sound advice given by the more experienced members here.

In your general prospective over the years do you think the hobby has evolved for the better in terms of education and understanding the potential issues that lead to tank crashes?
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Oh no! You said it 3 times!!
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MichaelB said:
I'm curious if full tank crashes were more common back when dbtc was starting up?

Not intending to imply they don't still happen. It just seems they don't apear to be very common presently gauging by members here reporting or seeking advice about major issues. I also envision that many potential crashes are avoided by the swift and sound advice given by the more experienced members here.

In your general prospective over the years do you think the hobby has evolved for the better in terms of education and understanding the potential issues that lead to tank crashes?
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I’ve actually seen several on here the past few months. Some weren’t full crashes but lost a lot of live stock. Sometimes people just don’t post about it. But yeah I’d assume it’s gotten better over time with the ease of being able to look things up and asking for advice outside your local circle
 
MichaelB said:
I'm curious if full tank crashes were more common back when dbtc was starting up?

Not intending to imply they don't still happen. It just seems they don't apear to be very common presently gauging by members here reporting or seeking advice about major issues. I also envision that many potential crashes are avoided by the swift and sound advice given by the more experienced members here.

In your general prospective over the years do you think the hobby has evolved for the better in terms of education and understanding the potential issues that lead to tank crashes?
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People probably have gotten better. We have learned more for sure.
Things still happen. Power outages. Fire evacuation.
Medical emergencies. Sudden divorce. Unplanned urgent moves. There’s plenty of things that can happen. The more people that have “backups” of corals the better chance they will survive. Also there’s always newer hobbyists coming through. If they can cut their teeth in captive prop frags rather than stuff from the ocean they will likely have better success and it isn’t as big a deal when they kill stuff.
 
richiev said:
FWIW the goal of reeflines was to promote coral that wasn't wild harvested; things at least one step away from the ocean. The lineage part was just an indirect byproduct from that. Ideally being to say "here's a coral that's 20 steps removed from the ocean, and here's what the situation was in tanks it did well in which will help you that care of yours".

I think if the goal is increase in captive corals and reduction of wild, the incentive and process potentially could be more inclusive too. Eg freebies offered are as important as chains. Technically sold corals too, since that's aligned, though sold doesn't really need other incentives.

I mention that because if we're going to find ways to incentivize more captive corals distribution overall, maybe there's other things to include than the DBTC setup. DBTC being a variation of that, but one rooted less in captive coral distribution and more in a single person having ownership and control of a chain of coral descendants. Similarly if the goal is overall distribution, then creating more freebies or new chains is worth as much as "completing a chain".

I'd personally love to rebuild something around all this, I just don't have the free cycles to do so. I'd also probably push for it to go a different way than DBTC, due to personal beliefs.

So to avoid just throwing out vague ideas, a very simple one would be a spreadsheet that people put entries in when they've given out frags to people in the club (DBTC or otherwise). Top contributors get extra frag swap priority. Have people self police the list. Requires zero dev work.
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Thanks for your opinions. There are plenty of ways to distribute things. Whatever works best for people is what they should do. Dbtc was around before me. I think it’s cool. I wish it worked better and people cared more. It’s kinda too late for me to do much about it anymore. Having a table at events is definitely helping spread stuff around I think.
 
Coral reefer said:
Thanks for your opinions. There are plenty of ways to distribute things. Whatever works best for people is what they should do. Dbtc was around before me. I think it’s cool. I wish it worked better and people cared more. It’s kinda too late for me to do much about it anymore. Having a table at events is definitely helping spread stuff around I think.
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This in itself might be a great idea. Once a month there is a certain place talked about in the beginning of the month that members could plan on meeting at the end of the month to do a DBTC swap. It wouldn't have to be a big event type of thing but just a place members could meet for a hour or so. I'm sure it's not something everyone could do all the time but it would be the consistency of doing it every month that would make DBTC stronger.
 
Coral reefer said:
People probably have gotten better. We have learned more for sure.
Things still happen. Power outages. Fire evacuation.
Medical emergencies. Sudden divorce. Unplanned urgent moves. There’s plenty of things that can happen. The more people that have “backups” of corals the better chance they will survive. Also there’s always newer hobbyists coming through. If they can cut their teeth in captive prop frags rather than stuff from the ocean they will likely have better success and it isn’t as big a deal when they kill stuff.
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I seen tons of tank crashes on social media from power outages during recent hurricaines in Fl. When power was out for several days, and there wasn't any fuel available for hundreds of miles even if you had a generator.
 
Reefer Madness said:
This in itself might be a great idea. Once a month there is a certain place talked about in the beginning of the month that members could plan on meeting at the end of the month to do a DBTC swap. It wouldn't have to be a big event type of thing but just a place members could meet for a hour or so. I'm sure it's not something everyone could do all the time but it would be the consistency of doing it every month that would make DBTC stronger.
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Not a bad idea. We used to have meetings almost every month. Then mostly every other month. Now we mostly just have frag swaps. Making a monthly dbtc get together would be cool imo. Could be combined with other stuff like fragging workshops etc easily
 
This thread went way off the rails. I'm going to change the name of this thread to dbtc thoughts and issues and start a new thread for the group buy.

My 2 cents. I believe a lot of people especially lately have been creating dbtc when it should of been a pif
 
Srt4eric said:
This thread went way off the rails. I'm going to change the name of this thread to dbtc thoughts and issues and start a new thread for the group buy.

My 2 cents. I believe a lot of people especially lately have been creating dbtc when it should of been a pif
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Need more elaboration. Why?
 
@Srt4eric are you saying only the finer corals should be reserved for DBTC and everything else should be PIF? I think that would only hurt the program more, we need more DBTC volume not less IMO.

I think it should be the opposite.
 
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