How often do you do water changes?

[OnTheReef]

I do ~15% (25 gallons) weekly on a total volume of ~150G bare bottom mixed reef. I'm skimming fairly dry with a Vertex Omega 180. I have a chaeto section in my sump.

 

[Flagg37]

When I had a 30 gallon tank I did about 2 gallons a week but it wasn’t enough. Nitrates slowly crept up to about 40. Every tank will have different requirements.

When I upgraded to a 120 gallon I knew I’d want to do as few water changes as possible. So I built a fairly large fuge (I think it was about 20 gallons) and it would overflow with chaeto. I would harvest about a basketball size clump of it every month. Like @Bruce Spiegelman, I took my skimmer off line. The biggest drawback is having to test and dose minor and trace elements. I was always being low on iron since the chaeto was taking it up. for me this trade off was worth while. I think I did 2 water changes on that tank from start to finish. Once after the first cycle to get the initial no3 down to proper levels and once after I used chemiclean to battle a cyano outbreak. The tank was up for about a year.

 

[Rostato]

On the subject of no water changes. I think success needs to be measured by a 5 year tank, not 1 or even 2. I think if you can keep a tank alive for 5 years then you should consider your "method" a success.

To me, I think anyone could let their tank go 6 months without a water change and still manage to keep everything alive if your actively being a good reefer. I did it, and did not properly manage trace elements and things started to go haywire with certain corals like my Meat Coral.

As for the triton method. I've been wanting to try it, but for me due to the cost of regular ICP tests ($50), and the massive alk demand my tank has, I'd just rather stick to B ionic, and water changes with a good salt (TMP).

I am in no way dissing the triton method, I just think it still requires the same amount of work in the end.

 

[JVU]

I think each of the proven methods is similar in success, cost, and time requirement. I’ve done all of the above at different times. The main difference is which clicks with your personality and schedule. Having a system that gives you personal satisfaction in the actual doing of it is very important, this is a hobby after all.

 

[ofzakaria]

On the subject of no water changes. I think success needs to be measured by a 5 year tank, not 1 or even 2. I think if you can keep a tank alive for 5 years then you should consider your "method" a success.

To me, I think anyone could let their tank go 6 months without a water change and still manage to keep everything alive if your actively being a good reefer. I did it, and did not properly manage trace elements and things started to go haywire with certain corals like my Meat Coral.

As for the triton method. I've been wanting to try it, but for me due to the cost of regular ICP tests ($50), and the massive alk demand my tank has, I'd just rather stick to B ionic, and water changes with a good salt (TMP).

I am in no way dissing the triton method, I just think it still requires the same amount of work in the end.

Same camp here, i personally do not believe in Triton's no water change method cause I think eventually something happen and reefer do massive water change anyway, it will just keep being described "no water change" cause it's not regular. I cannot imagin running my sps system without water change.
Keep in mind I run zeovit which also depend on individual elements dosing..lots of it, which I do based on icp, I would argue I dose individual major and minor elements more of many in the hobby, I still need water change and if I skip more than 3 weeks or some times a month due to travel, my coral show it.. So the concept that Triton allow u to avoid water change ever just because u test and dose all type of elements will not work on my system cause am doing it already..

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

Same camp here, i personally do not believe in Triton's no water change method cause I think eventually something happen and reefer do massive water change anyway, it will just keep being described "no water change" cause it's not regular. I cannot imagin running my sps system without water change.
Keep in mind I run zeovit which also depend on individual elements dosing..lots of it, which I do based on icp, I would argue I dose individual major and minor elements more of many in the hobby, I still need water change and if I skip more than 3 weeks or some times a month due to travel, my coral show it.. So the concept that Triton allow u to avoid water change ever just because u test and dose all type of elements will not work on my system cause am doing it already..

Ok -- fair enough. You don't believe in the Triton method. However, you didn't tell us why. If individual elements are all being replaced on an ongoing and stable manner then why do you need to do a water change? If nutrients are being exported efficiently then why is a rather inefficient method of nutrient export needed (water change). What is it you don't believe in, and what science do you base it on?

 

[ofzakaria]

Ok -- fair enough. You don't believe in the Triton method. However, you didn't tell us why. If individual elements are all being replaced on an ongoing and stable manner then why do you need to do a water change? If nutrients are being exported efficiently then why is a rather inefficient method of nutrient export needed (water change). What is it you don't believe in, and what science do you base it on?

I honestly do not know why, all I know that dosing all these elements alone was not enough and if I skip water change things screw up a bit.
My nutrient control is tight cause I dose bac and bac food per zeovit, so I would think it's not the biological filtration, I would think at least its comparable to gug method as my po4 and no3 is in tune to any target I want it to..
So again, I cannot see anything magical Triton doing other than replenishment of elements which I also am doing. But I do need water change. I can skip up to a month without major issues, just coral look bit unhappy, but 3 or 6 months is too scary for me lol
So many times when I have issues with coral, icp looks spot on, only a good water change correct the issue in a week.
I once even saw a post from randy saying something similar, when he see an issue, he do massive water change. That I relate to and also observed.
As I said I bet with all the "no water change" systems out there, if stacked with sensitive coral, systems will require a water change every now and then.

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

So you don't believe in it because you don't know why? Because of anecdotal evidence in your single tank?

 

[ofzakaria]

So you don't believe in it because you don't know why? Because of anecdotal evidence in your single tank?

No, because of the data mentioned above and with some deduction. I am using the method to an extent since Triton is basically fuge for nutrients and elements dosing based on icp. Which am doing.
Also from other data out there, BRS tried it and switched to "modified triton method" I believe which is basically regular reef keeping, regular water changes and icp test.
I would also think if it work at a scale without issues, someone like WWC would have used it and saved on the salt cost that must be needed at their large scale..

Clearly we do not have to agree.

 

[ofzakaria]

Intersting, just now BRS doing a vid about water change mistakes, and the first point they make is the no water change. They say it did not work out, and they believe it can work only on 5 to 10 years old tanks that are established for a while...

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

No, because of the data mentioned above and with some deduction. I am using the method to an extent since Triton is basically fuge for nutrients and elements dosing based on icp. Which am doing.
Also from other data out there, BRS tried it and switched to "modified triton method" I believe which is basically regular reef keeping, regular water changes and icp test.
I would also think if it work at a scale without issues, someone like WWC would have used it and saved on the salt cost that must be needed at their large scale..

Clearly we do not have to agree.

Salt cost is negligible at the quantities they buy compared to the chemical cost.

 

[Bruce Spiegelman]

Intersting, just now BRS doing a vid about water change mistakes, and the first point they make is the no water change. They say it did not work out, and they believe it can work only on 5 to 10 years old tanks that are established for a while...

Link?

 

[Meshmez]

Link?

 

[ofzakaria]

Salt cost is negligible at the quantities they buy compared to the chemical cost.

Not sure that's correct. At weekly 10 15%, large water change when there is issues, my 170g tank go thru alot of salt. I would assume at WWC scale it's much worst. I believe they use TMP which is one of the expensive salts out there.

Link?

They have it on their YouTube channel, live now.

 

[Meshmez]

I believe they use TMP which is one of the expensive salts out there.

I think they use Brightwell neomarine based on the older brs/wwc hybrid method videos

 

[ofzakaria]

I think they use Brightwell neomarine based on the older brs/wwc hybrid method videos

Thanks for the correction. Similar cost point as the TMP. 73$ for 150g

 

[sfsuphysics]

Thanks for the correction. Similar cost point as the TMP. 75$ for 150g

For you and me yes. For some place like BRS, wouldn't be surprised if the cost close to zero as advertising goods. It's no state secret Brightwell advertises heavily with them, part of that agreement very well may be use of goods for free.

 

[ofzakaria]

In my openion, the data on how much a failure this n water change method by triton, is evident in how fast the "modified" method was out and even featured by Triton themselves.

For you and me yes. For some place like BRS, wouldn't be surprised if the cost close to zero as advertising goods. It's no state secret Brightwell advertises heavily with them, part of that agreement very well may be use of goods for free.

But not for WWC and other coral farms out there..do not u think? At a discount maybe, but I know for a fact that margins on the salt are low..you would be suprised man.

 

[Meshmez]

For you and me yes. For some place like BRS, wouldn't be surprised if the cost close to zero as advertising goods. It's no state secret Brightwell advertises heavily with them, part of that agreement very well may be use of goods for free.

I thought we were talking about WWC (though the same is probably true of them) I believe BRS does use TMP

 

[sfsuphysics]

I thought we were talking about WWC (though the same is probably true of them) I believe BRS does use TMP

Gotcha, just saw the BRS and thought them