kessil
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rygh
Guest
kessilman said:
I have to admit this is purely curiosity, since I am DIY-ing, so feel free to ignore.
1) I would love to hear some detailed specs on the LED itself.
Anything from basic lumens per watt on the white, to full spectrum drawings in a datasheet.
Or even estimates on how it compares to known devices, like Cree XP-G.
2) Do you have any other colors mixed in, or is it purely the standard cool white + royal blue type of design?
I am not a big fan of that simple combo, due to holes in the red and cyan, but I am overly picky.
3) Any details on the power supply and cooling.
A bit surprised by what appears to be a slightly low efficiency driver. (36 watt light for a 30 watt led)
But given the little marketing blurb I read that in, hard to tell.
Fan driven cooling, or passive? I would guess fan from the small form factor.
kessilman
Guest
Hi rygh,
You know, curiosity killed the cat, so I guess its a good thing for your fish.
Enough with the bad jokes and straight to some answers. You have very good questions so I will do my best to answer them.
1) This is the 30W DEX 2100 LED. Because it is a Dense Matrix LED it will be hard to directly compare to something like the XP-G. The best way to compare this is with 150W of Halide light as this is what it is at least equevalant to in usable light. This video explains in more detail though it is a bit long DiCon Tech Overview This array allows us to have a very deep penetrating single simulated point source vs. a single 1W or even 5W chip.
2) I couldn't agree more. Though originally we had some red wavelentghs in there they were not very ashtetically pleasing and functionally were not needed. With that said we still include multiple blue wavelenghts, uncluding UVA, along with our high brighness phosphor white chips. On a side note, all of our high brightness LED chips are made here in the Bay Area and we may be open to some custom array configurations.
3) The eficacy for a typical power supply is around 75-80% (Laptops and such) which is why they get so hot. Our power supplies are usually between 85-92% and our drivers are 90+ %. Even though our units usually pull about 32-34 watts from the wall we list it as 36-40 to cover the tollerances in certain conditions. In terms of cooling all of our current units are actively cooled, but it is really the bonding process and MCB that allow us to maintain such a small platform.
I know it's alot to digest, but hopefully I answered all of your questions.
You know, curiosity killed the cat, so I guess its a good thing for your fish.
Enough with the bad jokes and straight to some answers. You have very good questions so I will do my best to answer them.
1) This is the 30W DEX 2100 LED. Because it is a Dense Matrix LED it will be hard to directly compare to something like the XP-G. The best way to compare this is with 150W of Halide light as this is what it is at least equevalant to in usable light. This video explains in more detail though it is a bit long DiCon Tech Overview This array allows us to have a very deep penetrating single simulated point source vs. a single 1W or even 5W chip.
2) I couldn't agree more. Though originally we had some red wavelentghs in there they were not very ashtetically pleasing and functionally were not needed. With that said we still include multiple blue wavelenghts, uncluding UVA, along with our high brighness phosphor white chips. On a side note, all of our high brightness LED chips are made here in the Bay Area and we may be open to some custom array configurations.
3) The eficacy for a typical power supply is around 75-80% (Laptops and such) which is why they get so hot. Our power supplies are usually between 85-92% and our drivers are 90+ %. Even though our units usually pull about 32-34 watts from the wall we list it as 36-40 to cover the tollerances in certain conditions. In terms of cooling all of our current units are actively cooled, but it is really the bonding process and MCB that allow us to maintain such a small platform.
I know it's alot to digest, but hopefully I answered all of your questions.
anathema
Guest
I think I saw these in purple in a hydro store divis in sf. If so they look like a quality piece of equipment but it would take a lot of them to light a tank of any size. I run a 150w halide on a 36" tank and it barely covers it with a lumenarc. If these are the same lights it would take at least 3 of these to get the same coverage. I hope they show them at baymac so I can check them out in person.
rygh
Guest
Yes, very interesting video. Looks like you have some interesting advantages over the more standard arrays of LEDs.
Nice design tradeoffs.
Very cool that it is made locally in Richmond.
Too bad about the missing red, but my guess is it is impossible to add just the tiny amount you need.
My playing around with colors, completely subjective, showed that about 1% red looks pretty good.
A pretty small number, and hard to do with a small array of high brightness LEDs.
The deep blue/UVA should help. Looks purple and fools the eye a bit. I was wondering about that low spike
on the spectrum diagram. That explains it.
You have another advantage in not getting any color banding effects, since all the colors are so tightly grouped.
Again, I am probably overly picky, but it bugs me, so good to see that.
Now as to a 30W LED being equivalent to 150W MH, well, it all depends.
I actually completely believe that for the red/blue grow lights, because you can fine
tune the spectrum for plants so well.
But for the aquarium, I remain a bit skeptical. The problem being, you have to provide a much
broader more uniform spectrum, since you have to make both people and coral happy.
But we shall see. Looking forward to seeing it.
Nice design tradeoffs.
Very cool that it is made locally in Richmond.
Too bad about the missing red, but my guess is it is impossible to add just the tiny amount you need.
My playing around with colors, completely subjective, showed that about 1% red looks pretty good.
A pretty small number, and hard to do with a small array of high brightness LEDs.
The deep blue/UVA should help. Looks purple and fools the eye a bit. I was wondering about that low spike
on the spectrum diagram. That explains it.
You have another advantage in not getting any color banding effects, since all the colors are so tightly grouped.
Again, I am probably overly picky, but it bugs me, so good to see that.
Now as to a 30W LED being equivalent to 150W MH, well, it all depends.
I actually completely believe that for the red/blue grow lights, because you can fine
tune the spectrum for plants so well.
But for the aquarium, I remain a bit skeptical. The problem being, you have to provide a much
broader more uniform spectrum, since you have to make both people and coral happy.
But we shall see. Looking forward to seeing it.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
I'd like to see some of these "one shot" LEDs next to each other just to see how they spread. With my tank not being very deep (yet very large in every other direction) I'd need less penetration and more coverage.
kessilman
Guest
We are working on a new video for some tech we are releasing soon :bigsmile: Ill post a link when its finished.
As far as the red you are right 1-2% wasn't enough to add red in, however we did lower the cct on the white to compensate for that somewhat. Still not quite the same but it works well.
Right now we have lights on display at Wet Pets in San Pablo (which is closing soon), All About Fish in Pleasant Hill, Aquarium Concepts in Dublin, Atlantis Aquarium in Union City, Dolphin Pet Village in Campbell, and Albany Aquarium in Albany if want to see them in action before BAYMAC (still deciding on whether or not to get a booth
).
I'm looking for somewhere in SF and maybe San Mateo area to display lights and im open to suggestions.
Oh, and the w in A150W is for wide which has about a 104 degree reflector. Most of the horticulture lights (H150) are about a 60 degree total spread.
As far as the red you are right 1-2% wasn't enough to add red in, however we did lower the cct on the white to compensate for that somewhat. Still not quite the same but it works well.
Right now we have lights on display at Wet Pets in San Pablo (which is closing soon), All About Fish in Pleasant Hill, Aquarium Concepts in Dublin, Atlantis Aquarium in Union City, Dolphin Pet Village in Campbell, and Albany Aquarium in Albany if want to see them in action before BAYMAC (still deciding on whether or not to get a booth
).I'm looking for somewhere in SF and maybe San Mateo area to display lights and im open to suggestions.
Oh, and the w in A150W is for wide which has about a 104 degree reflector. Most of the horticulture lights (H150) are about a 60 degree total spread.
anathema
Guest
kessilman said:
Please post if you find an SF store, I'd love to see these in person but the stores listed are quite out of the way for me.
Good to hear about the wider reflector, the purple lights I saw in the hydroponics store had a very narrow beam and that seemed like it would make things difficult for a reef application.
Also, just out of curiousity, if a reefer buys used plant lights is it possible to swap the diode and reflector? Also if the consumer buys a 20K and later decides they would prefer another color is it possible to purchase the parts and swap? In five years when it wears out is it possible to replace the diode?
xcaret
Guest
anathema said:kessilman said:
+1 on those questions.
I don't see myself buying one of the readily available LED ones if in five years I have to buy the whole thing again. I'm almost seeing myself breaking the piggy bank (either my son's or daughter's
kessilman
Guest
We don't currenlty sell the components on the open market. However, I don't see a problem selling replacement parts :bigsmile: . As far as in 5-10 years from now you would be better off buying a new unit as the other components (fan, driver, power supply, seals) may start to wear out after that.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
kessilman said:
ouch...
anathema
Guest
I dunno, reefers are a pretty cheap bunch.
As the power supply ages does it's efficiency decrease? I would be MUCH more likely to buy an LED setup if it had replaceable components. One of my big issues with them is the marketing claim that they save money because you don't have to replace bulbs, but it seems like the fixtures are all built as throwaways, severely curtailing your savings because when it wears out you need a new fixture.
Hope these questions aren't too annoying, but this is a rather unique opportunity to have a rep on the forum answering. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss it.
As the power supply ages does it's efficiency decrease? I would be MUCH more likely to buy an LED setup if it had replaceable components. One of my big issues with them is the marketing claim that they save money because you don't have to replace bulbs, but it seems like the fixtures are all built as throwaways, severely curtailing your savings because when it wears out you need a new fixture.
Hope these questions aren't too annoying, but this is a rather unique opportunity to have a rep on the forum answering. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss it.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Could drop one off at my house and I'd totally be open to display it to members
kessilman said:We are working on a new video for some tech we are releasing soon :bigsmile: Ill post a link when its finished.
As far as the red you are right 1-2% wasn't enough to add red in, however we did lower the cct on the white to compensate for that somewhat. Still not quite the same but it works well.
Right now we have lights on display at Wet Pets in San Pablo (which is closing soon), All About Fish in Pleasant Hill, Aquarium Concepts in Dublin, Atlantis Aquarium in Union City, Dolphin Pet Village in Campbell, and Albany Aquarium in Albany if want to see them in action before BAYMAC (still deciding on whether or not to get a booth
I'm looking for somewhere in SF and maybe San Mateo area to display lights and im open to suggestions.
Oh, and the w in A150W is for wide which has about a 104 degree reflector. Most of the horticulture lights (H150) are about a 60 degree total spread.
There's something wrong here...how come Neptune Aquatics didn't get one? They must be chopped livers....hehe.
I sent ya guys an email... :bigsmile:
h20player101
Guest
If you are still looking for someone on the Peninsula, you might want to checkout Ultimate Aquarium in San Mateo on El Camino. They are not very tech oriented, but will carry stuff if you wave it under their noses! One of the owner's name is Joe, but you could talk to Dexter also.
