Cali Kid Corals

Complete Bonus/Ultra Coral List - 2024 (REVISED AS OF 2/16/25)

tribbitt said:
Some of those mushrooms were from me. I brought 6 med-small mushrooms and 1 small smoothskin Acropora, and received 1 ticket for all 7 of those corals combined. They were still labelled as bonus because they were technically on the list (In case someone was searching for something they knew was on the bonus list, we didn't want it to be unlabelled).
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There were definitely a few other similar sized ones as well. With mushrooms so small it just becomes difficult to determine if they fit the criteria of a bonus/ultra, especially if someone argues they are bouncing. Hopefully you didn’t feel unfairly treated for what you brought in vs how many tickets you got.
 
An "ultra round" might definitely help this issue, and I think it's a great idea that can be implemented - but I also think that many of the current "ultra" corals shouldn't be considered ultra. One goal of the bonus system (3 frags to a ticket) is to ensure that a significant number of desirable corals make it to regular rounds so everyone has a chance. An "Ultra" coral is one that is so special that we collectively decide it should be exempt from this, giving it a a 1:1 "value" with the intention that someone will be incentivized to share it at all. By including too many "ehh sure" corals on the Ultra list, we dilute the incentive to bring those truly special corals.

In my mind, being able to represent desirability with more resolution would help address this in two ways, and with a basic 3-tier system I think it's intuitive enough to maintain the simplicity of the current system.

Bonus: 3 corals = 1 ticket
Premium: 2 corals = 1 ticket
Ultra: 1 coral = 1 ticket

1) By reducing the number of tickets given for borderline ultra corals, this system increases the relative value of those corals that really deserve their spot in Ultra without inflating the number of tickets present in the swap (e.g. by increasing tickets given for select ultra) - and important point, I think the Premium category should, at least at first, consist mostly of ultra corals that are shifted down rather than bonus that are shifted up.

2) By moving some less-desirable currently ultra corals to lower tiers that are above bonus, we maintain the existing gradient of incentive to bring those borderline ultra corals, because some of them are more desirable than bonus.

This is, of course, only my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree - and I'd love to hear why if you do.
 
tribbitt said:
An "ultra round" might definitely help this issue, and I think it's a great idea that can be implemented - but I also think that many of the current "ultra" corals should not be considered ultra at all. One goal of the bonus system (3 frags to a ticket) is to ensure that a significant number of desirable corals make it to regular rounds so everyone has a chance. An "Ultra" coral is one that is so special that we collectively decide it should be exempt from this, giving it a a 1:1 "value" with the intention that someone will be incentivized to share it at all. By including too many "ehh sure" corals on the Ultra list, we dilute the incentive to bring those truly special corals.

In my mind, being able to represent desirability with more resolution would help address this in two ways, and with a basic 3-tier system I think it's intuitive enough to maintain the simplicity of the current system.

Bonus: 3 corals = 1 ticket
Premium: 2 corals = 1 ticket
Ultra: 1 coral = 1 ticket

1) By reducing the number of tickets given for borderline ultra corals, this system increases the relative value of those corals that really deserve their spot in Ultra without inflating the number of tickets present in the swap (e.g. by increasing tickets given for select ultra) - and important point, I think the Premium category should, at least at first, consist mostly of ultra corals that are shifted down rather than bonus that are shifted up.

2) By moving some less-desirable currently ultra corals to lower tiers that are above bonus, we maintain the existing gradient of incentive to bring those borderline ultra corals, because some of them are more desirable than bonus.

This is, of course, only my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree - and I'd love to hear why if you do.
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I agree that the ultra list can be refined. But I like the idea of an ultra round because it lets those people who brought really nice corals get first pick. With the current system, someone who bring a designer torch is picking with people who brought ie 3 bonus zoas or 3 gold/splatter hammers all which can be purchased fairly cheap. I know if there was an ultra round, more people would bring ultras so you’re actually swapping 1:1 ultra for ultra. Kinda like the holiday swap. We’d still have the bonus rounds after with the 3 bonus=1 ticket so there’s still be bonus corals making it to the normal rounds.
 
JVU said:
I was thinking about how to better reward the few people who bring more nice corals while still encouraging more people to bring at least some. One of the problems we’ve had more recently, which is quite frankly I think the main impetus for removing coral from the bonus list, is how many people are in that very first Bonus round. Everyone in that group has a fair chance to walk out with the very nicest corals that were brought, even if they only brought the minimum 3 bonus corals and got 1 ticket. Which I think is a lot of the members in that group. The flip side of this is that the members who brought lots of bonus/ultra corals are more likely to walk away without getting what they wanted. So they walk away asking themselves why do I bother?

So I was thinking maybe the very first bonus round should be for the most generous members. That could mean just those who brought at least a certain number of ultra corals. Or, easier to enforce and what I think is better, those who have at least 5 or so bonus tickets in hand. Or something like that. So that those who go above and beyond and supply the corals everyone else will be happy with have 1 first pick, and are more likely to at least get 1 coral they are excited about. This also would encourage others to get into this group by bringing more nice frags, which of course is what we want. Then the next bonus round would be all bonus ticket holders for 1 frag, then bonus round for the rest of the tickets. So pretty similar to what we did, except that the first bonus round would be a lot fewer people, the ones who were the most generous. By definition the people in that first round brought a lot more than 1 nice coral, so it still benefits the members in subsequent rounds to have people in that group.

We used to have fewer people come, and yet have more coral brought. A lot of members are bringing the minimum. Which is 100% fine of course for those who can only bring that many. But we used to also have several members who brought tons of frags, at least 5-10 times as many as they would bring home. It makes the swap a lot more magical for the newer members when they can go home with a bunch of nice frags, but it only works if some people give a lot more than they will take. It’s a lot of work, and without some encouragement those people stop doing it, as we’ve seen.
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Call it the ultra round ? With a different color ticket?
 
MarcosD said:
I agree that the ultra list can be refined. But I like the idea of an ultra round because it lets those people who brought really nice corals get first pick. With the current system, someone who bring a designer torch is picking with people who brought ie 3 bonus zoas or 3 gold/splatter hammers all which can be purchased fairly cheap. I know if there was an ultra round, more people would bring ultras so you’re actually swapping 1:1 ultra for ultra. Kinda like the holiday swap. We’d still have the bonus rounds after with the 3 bonus=1 ticket so there’s still be bonus corals making it to the normal rounds.
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I agree. And my proposal is in addition to what you guys suggested
 
The reason I don’t favor the ultra round with the most simple rule of anyone who brings 1 ultra frag gets in, is because it’s a 1-for-1 swap. Bring one very nice coral, take home one very nice coral. While everyone else sits around watching you. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, and sometimes we do that with mini-swaps. Just not the goal I had in mind, which was to optimize for people bringing multiple nice corals but still having the first ultra round be special for the most generous people.

So I would make it so that they have to bring at least 3 ultra corals, or have a certain number of bonus tickets, say at least 5. If someone brings 5 ultra coral or 15 bonus corals, I’d say they’ve earned the privilege of being in that first round to pick 1 coral before others. That still leaves 4 ultra corals or 14 bonus corals (or some combo) for everyone else to have a chance at.
 
JVU said:
The reason I don’t favor the ultra round with the most simple rule of anyone who brings 1 ultra frag gets in, is because it’s a 1-for-1 swap. Bring one very nice coral, take home one very nice coral. While everyone else sits around watching you. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, and sometimes we do that with mini-swaps. Just not the goal I had in mind, which was to optimize for people bringing multiple nice corals but still having the first ultra round be special for the most generous people.

So I would make it so that they have to bring at least 3 ultra corals, or have a certain number of bonus tickets, say at least 5. If someone brings 5 ultra coral or 15 bonus corals, I’d say they’ve earned the privilege of being in that first round to pick 1 coral before others. That still leaves 4 ultra corals or 14 bonus corals (or some combo) for everyone else to have a chance at.
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i suggested 2-for-1 ultra. See below


IMG_6090.png
 
JVU said:
I think when deciding whether or not to delist from bonus, the main consideration should be desirability (demand) rather than how many people have been bringing (supply). If a coral is desirable and people are bringing a lot, that is the system working correctly. You will see some make it into the second regular picking round… but that is one of the main goals of the bonus system, to make it so all our members have a chance to go home with a desirable coral or 2.

Every time we delist a coral you should be saying to yourself, ok I won’t be seeing that much anymore at swaps. And decide if that’s a good thing or not.

I think tequila sunrise should definitely stay bonus. It remains very desirable, I saw one of our most savvy members intentionally pick one in the first bonus round, and they sell retail for more than many of the corals on our ultra list.

Gold hammer is along the same lines but less clear cut.

I’m afraid the BAR blue tort vs Oregon tort issue may have irreparably harmed our ability to properly value it. I wanted to get a “real” Oregon this swap and didn’t see any, but I saw several that I thought were BAR blue torts labeled Oregon that got past our ultra check in table. It’s too hard to tell for sure at the table. If Oregon is to stay on the ultra list, I think individual members should need to get pre-approval from our experts before the swap and only they would be able to get ultra credit for it.
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JVU said:
I think when deciding whether or not to delist from bonus, the main consideration should be desirability (demand) rather than how many people have been bringing (supply). If a coral is desirable and people are bringing a lot, that is the system working correctly. You will see some make it into the second regular picking round… but that is one of the main goals of the bonus system, to make it so all our members have a chance to go home with a desirable coral or 2.

Every time we delist a coral you should be saying to yourself, ok I won’t be seeing that much anymore at swaps. And decide if that’s a good thing or not.

I think tequila sunrise should definitely stay bonus. It remains very desirable, I saw one of our most savvy members intentionally pick one in the first bonus round, and they sell retail for more than many of the corals on our ultra list.

Gold hammer is along the same lines but less clear cut.

I’m afraid the BAR blue tort vs Oregon tort issue may have irreparably harmed our ability to properly value it. I wanted to get a “real” Oregon this swap and didn’t see any, but I saw several that I thought were BAR blue torts labeled Oregon that got past our ultra check in table. It’s too hard to tell for sure at the table. If Oregon is to stay on the ultra list, I think individual members should need to get pre-approval from our experts before the swap and only they would be able to get ultra credit for it.
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I guess a big problem I have with the lists and how they are made is we use coral we have in our tanks to determine what should be bonus rather than what we want to see people bring. I have a lot of this coral or simply just what’s the easiest route to make it into the bonus.

IE prolific and pretty much an undesirable if you’ve been in the club for a little while rainbow yumas, nirvana zoas, tequila sunrise. I can barely give these away and I usually urge new aquarists to stay away from these coral.

Also bonus corals should be scrutinized even more so than normal coral. The tickets need to be handed out properly and not given an extra one here and there. That’s more than likely contributing to bonus and ultras being picked in the first 3 rounds that normally would have made it later into rounds.

And to @RandyC point about way to many bonus pickers. I had the exact same thought. How are this many picking in these first 3 rounds with what’s on the tables.

I try to bring decent coral and a decent amount. I’m not into Sticks like some are so I stay away from that stuff and defer to everyone else’s judgement on that. But the last to bonus round swaps I’ve been to have me contemplating wether or not it’s worth it. Or do I do the bare minimum with leathers and our clubs orange/ rainbow yumas like so many.

And @B the Nano Reefer point about size. Size has got to play into bonus and ultra rounds cause the size of some of the stuff was appalling. And again makes me double think what I want to bring.
And when I see multiple people walk out of a bonus round with 10 bonus/ultra. I wonder what they brought to get all those tickets.

It just feels like something is off and the first hour of picking was bonus rounds. I don’t think giving out more bonus tickets and making another bonus round is the answer. Just a higher scrutiny of the bonus and ultra lists once they’re finalized and actually sticking to it when we are checking in the coral.
 
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MarcosD said:
I like this.

The 5 for 1 is crazy. The 3 for 1 is kinda pushing it IMO.

The ultra list would have to be refined
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I’m not saying 3 or 5 ultras for 1 ticket. They would still get the normal number of tickets and bonus round picks. I’m saying to get into the very first bonus round where you get to pick 1 before the rest of the members, you need to have earned that many bonus tickets or brought that many ultras.
 
JVU said:
I’m not saying 3 or 5 ultras for 1 ticket. They would still get the normal number of tickets and bonus round picks. I’m saying to get into the very first bonus round where you get to pick 1 before the rest of the members, you need to have earned that many bonus tickets or brought that many ultras.
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Ohhh ok that makes more sense
 
There's a lot of good feedback here, but it's probably worth pointing out a couple things:
  1. We had an excellent frag swap. Sure some stuff was mislabeled or made it through, but you all aren't crediting all of the things that didn't make it, were changed, pushed back, etc. I went home with way more awesome coral I was genuinely excited about than any swap so far.
  2. We should be careful about ADDING more rules and complexities - part of the problem is that people struggle with what's in place already.

I love the idea of an ultra round - I think @JVU makes a good point about having lots of cool bonus coral available, and that this isn't a problem. The problem is what @RandyC points out which is that those of us that brought 3-4 very desirable ultra frags are competing in the first round with the person who has a handful of tickets because they cashed in a million rainbow yuma mushrooms. This kind of feels bad - and it means you only get ONE shot at a super nice coral, not a great return on investment for some of us.

I'll start up a BOD thread re: Ultra round because I think this solves a lot of what's being called out here. I'm thinking we actually keep a larger bonus list (to @JVU 's point) and do away with the ultra list entirely - and have some kind of process ahead of the swap for the ultra contributors to all sign off on what they're bringing.
 
It was a great swap. I had a lot of fun and I know others did as well. I think we’re throwing ideas out there that we think will improve but that doesn’t take away from the hard work and effort that everyone that helped put this together did. I think this swap went smoother than the last and I know it’ll just keep getting better and better
 
derek_SR said:
There's a lot of good feedback here, but it's probably worth pointing out a couple things:
  1. We had an excellent frag swap. Sure some stuff was mislabeled or made it through, but you all aren't crediting all of the things that didn't make it, were changed, pushed back, etc. I went home with way more awesome coral I was genuinely excited about than any swap so far.
  2. We should be careful about ADDING more rules and complexities - part of the problem is that people struggle with what's in place already.

I love the idea of an ultra round - I think @JVU makes a good point about having lots of cool bonus coral available, and that this isn't a problem. The problem is what @RandyC points out which is that those of us that brought 3-4 very desirable ultra frags are competing in the first round with the person who has a handful of tickets because they cashed in a million rainbow yuma mushrooms. This kind of feels bad.

I'll start up a BOD thread re: Ultra round because I think this solves a lot of what's being called out here. I'm thinking we actually keep a larger bonus list (to @JVU 's point) and do away with the ultra list entirely - and have some kind of process ahead of the swap for the ultra contributors to all sign off on what they're bringing.
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I don’t think anyone was implying it was a bad swap or that anyone did anything egregious. They are always fun for me as I enjoy the draft style picking and the mystery of what will be there round by round. That’s mostly what draws me in and will continue to attend.

I agree added layers of hard to understand rules or amendments isn’t the way to correct these issues. And these aren’t new issues. I don’t see a need for any drastic changes. Maybe just better enforcement of the rules we have. With some small changes to what have been implemented already.

Again great swap thank you to all BOD for what you guys do. No harps on anyone just some insight from members of the club. As @MarcosD pointed out.

Just some quick thoughts


1 Ultra and 1 Bonus Round
Use 2 different color tickets for ultra and bonus.

An option to trade your ultra or bonus tickets for raffle tickets? Might help leave some things on the table for later rounds.

Ultra Picking Round: 5 minutes
A 2 coral for 1 ticket ratio? Might degrade the amount of ultra we see. But a 1-1 means all the ultra could effectively be picked in that round.

All corals need to process through as a WYSIWYG (48-72-full week?) Before the Swap by BOD/member audit team 3people that way there is a tiebreaker. I feel something like this is acceptable for anyone bringing ultra coral.

Bonus Picking Round: 5 minutes
3 coral - 1 ticket ratio

Use all tickets in this round.

Round 1 Regular Swapping 1-7: 3 minutes

Round 2 Regular Swapping 7-1: 3 minutes

ETC…
 
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I'm liking the sound of the Ultra round and feel a 1:1 is fine for this as long as the list is very selective and there is a size standard set for the frags brought. Pre registering and having a board screen and approve them ahead of time also sounds like a good idea. One challenge in this I can see is if someone wants to participate but can't (or doesn't have the equipment) to take a good quality photo.
 
Arvin R said:
I'm liking the sound of the Ultra round and feel a 1:1 is fine for this as long as the list is very selective and there is a size standard set for the frags brought. Pre registering and having a board screen and approve them ahead of time also sounds like a good idea. One challenge in this I can see is if someone wants to participate but can't (or doesn't have the equipment) to take a good quality photo.
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We Can always do this as it's own event a trial run of sorts in someone's garage to work out any potential major kinks. (maybe in someone's garage) before doing it at a frag swap.
 
After thinking about it a little more. Might be best to do away with ultra and have that as a separate event.

If you do 1-1 then it’s a wash because every ultra essentially could be gone by that round. So what would be the point of having ultras? Just so people can cherry pick before hand and potentially leave the swap like they weren’t there to begin with.

I would also like to see how Our BOD chooses what’s on the list? This needs to be more transparent and needs to be more than one person. BOD isn’t here to be a secretive behind the scene separated group.

I understand it’s easy to take things personally but this is all of our club. And a BOD title is just that a title not ownership of anything.
 
Arvin R said:
I'm liking the sound of the Ultra round and feel a 1:1 is fine for this as long as the list is very selective and there is a size standard set for the frags brought. Pre registering and having a board screen and approve them ahead of time also sounds like a good idea. One challenge in this I can see is if someone wants to participate but can't (or doesn't have the equipment) to take a good quality photo.
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This is basically what I proposed in a BOD thread. Doesn’t even necessarily need to be the BOD that approves either - could be an ultra swapper committee.
 
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